Episode 7: Mansplaining and Synoptic Gospels - Transcript

CA: [00:00:00] hi teamsters. I'm Carey Ann

AE: [00:00:16] and I'm Allison. And this is podcast without an audience 

CA: [00:00:20] where two friends pick two topics and find intersectionality 

AE: [00:00:23] or not. How are you doing? I am great. Good. How are you? Good. I'm enjoying, we're recording on a Sunday today 

CA: [00:00:34] and I just spent two hours outside and now my internal, like my throat and my face are mostly pollen. 

AE: [00:00:43] The pollen is real on it. Yeah. It's pretty, um, potent here and I think not everywhere gets pollen like we do in North Carolina, but it is rough. Like you walk outside and it's like on your car, like you can't wash your car for like six weeks, eight weeks out of the whole year.

And then it just coats everything. 

CA: [00:01:06] I took two days off of work this week because I needed just a fucking break. Yes, girl. So, um, Monday I was like, I don't feel like cleaning my house though. It's one of the things on my to do list. So what should I do this week? And I decided to go and get my car washed.

So I did, and I vacuumed it out and I was feeling great. And then the next day I walked outside and 

AE: [00:01:26] I'm like, yeah. Hmm. It's like, it never happened. That's yellow. Yep. Yeah. Ray took my car this morning and got it cleaned, which I thought was very nice. Um, but I have a white car and so it's just, it shows everything.

Yeah. Yeah. She's dainty. 

CA: [00:01:44] So, have you been seeing all of these, like now that we're like on the brink of coming out of quarantine more and more people are being vaccinated. I keep seeing these posts about, um, like if you haven't learned a new skill or whatever during this time, then you haven't used it efficiently.

No. 

AE: [00:02:03] All of this pressure. Oh no, no, I am not okay with that. I am so not okay with pass on the fact posted that. 

CA: [00:02:12] Exactly. Yeah. And all these therapists have started making their own memes and they're like, You survived. I survived a fucking pandemic, calm the fuck down and one of my absolute favorite ones is I saw a meme yesterday that I had to share with you and we'll post it on our Instagram, but it said, uh, if you feel like you haven't accomplished anything yet, uh, just to remember that Brahm Stoker was 50 when he wrote Dracula and Dracula was dead before he killed 

AE: [00:02:37] anybody.

Yes. Dracula jokes. That's so true. I felt really good about that. You see that also with other people, you know, actors not receiving credit, you know? Yeah. Their major roles until certain ages and, um, you know, inventions, discoveries, all kinds of things at a certain age. But I don't think that anybody needs to feel obligated to have done a single thing.

No quarantine. I think we need to just have been surviving. Yeah. My biggest accomplishment is that I found savory oatmeal. And I'm fine with that. 

CA: [00:03:16] The day you texted me about savory oatmeal, your 

AE: [00:03:19] life wish my life has changed. 

CA: [00:03:21] What have I done during quarantine? 

AE: [00:03:24] You've got a nice new apartment and you've decorated it beautifully.

Yeah. Looks good. Kind of nesting, I think was kind of like a common thing. Yeah. 

CA: [00:03:33] Yeah. For I'm feel like a lot of people. Yeah. I don't think I'm the only one there, but, um, no, I made a list of all the nesting things I want to do over the next, like two or three weeks. I wanted to make a wreath 

AE: [00:03:43] and make a wreath girl, um, like a spring wreath, like a 

CA: [00:03:47] spring wreath with lavender or something.

Cause I don't like fake flowers. I really like real flowers and real herbs. So I want to make it myself. 

AE: [00:03:56] Well, and you have like a thing about lists too was like, girl, I love me. I love about list and it's not even like, you know, I mean setting goals for yourself I think is important. But in this time we need to be really Frank like considerate about our own.

CA: [00:04:11] Yeah. For me having a list. And like, you know, I have my yearly list of, you know, the 20 things I want to accomplish in a year and I never do all 20. Um, but that's not the point. Like the point is that for me lists helped me feel grounded and helped me feel like I have something to do when I don't know what to do.

AE: [00:04:31] Yeah. They're usually involving like travel being in two places at once. You know, just kind of the very much a walk to remember read a thousand books 

CA: [00:04:41] specifically. Uh, by Judy Picoult, Jodi Picoult, no reading. All of her books has been on my list every year for like the past 10 years. Um, still have not accomplished 

AE: [00:04:53] it because she makes one every seven minutes.

Um, so yeah, so my topic is a little bit longer today. So as much as I love talking to you, 

CA: [00:05:03] my topic is actually shorter. Um, and it's all about me. So, so 

AE: [00:05:10] just jump right into it. So that's great. What you got today, CA. 

CA: [00:05:16] Well, I wanted to tell you that I have been thinking about taking up writing again. Oh good.

Oh, that's fantastic. I know. I feel really good about it. My dad and I were just talking about it recently, but I think my first project is going to be a series of short stories and poems called subtle sexism in the sky. Ooh. Who 

AE: [00:05:34] doesn't love it. Sexism in the sky. Love it. 

CA: [00:05:38] Yeah. Reason being for all of you listening out there, I'm a pilot who has had the great fortune.

The greatest fortune of growing up with a pilot and flight instructor for a dad. Yeah. Um, so let me just get a few frequently asked questions. 

AE: [00:05:52] Yes. 

CA: [00:05:54] Uh, started flying officially when I was 14 soloed at 21, got my license at 20. 

AE: [00:06:02] Question. Yeah. That was a big day for you. 

CA: [00:06:04] It was I'm surprised. I don't remember how old I was when I did it.

Clearly I was in no rush, but over the years I've really grown to love it more and more. I also fly a Cessna 172, and in building Cessna 150 with my dad. 

AE: [00:06:16] Cessna no idea with that means totally into it.

CA: [00:06:20] So our Cessna 172, it's a four-seater and the little 150 cute purple plane.

Um, that will hopefully be mine one day. And it's a two seater. 

AE: [00:06:28] So do the numbers correlate with like the size 

CA: [00:06:31] essentially? It's just a model. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So back to the story, I was recently reminded just how much sexism there is an aviation, and I've been keeping detailed notes for years pre COVID, my dad and another pilot friend.

And I flew down to Johnston County to hear a presentation from Garmin about a navigation technology that is for airplanes. Okay. So we get there and there's like 50 to a hundred people. And one of the guys from garment comes around and is offering us drinks, like beer, wine, whatever. Now you know that my dad doesn't drink and you absolutely can't drink prior to flying.

Like. That's a hard pasture, but most people who were there had either driven or come in groups. So like somebody from their group could be drinking so long as the pilot was still sober, which is why they were, they had drinks regardless. All three of us, me and my dad and, uh, the guy who owned the airplane, turned down our drinks.

Now the garment guy was pretty insistent, especially with me and really tried to get me to take a beer. I made a joke about being the designated pilot and the guy looked at me a little, 

AE: [00:07:31] Oh, I'm scared for where this is. This 

CA: [00:07:35] man mustered up all the audacity. He could carry in his overly starched pants and said, well, to land a plane, you need to point the nose to the ground and then pull out the middle knob just a little bit until you get close and then pull it out further.

And then you pull back, like he was mansplaining. How to land an airplane to me. Cool. Cool. Cool. And at this point I am fuming. I'm already the only girl burn 

AE: [00:08:02] it down, CA burn it down and I've 

CA: [00:08:04] already had like, at least three other sexist things said to me over the course of the past hour. So I tell him what he can do with that knob.

And my dad very politely says I wouldn't underestimate her. She's got a lot more hours than you. Yes. Steve supportive. Yeah. This man now realizing that we were not exactly the party crowd. He was hoping we would be just kind of walked away. I hate for 

AE: [00:08:29] you. Yeah. He, uh, 

CA: [00:08:33] he was barking up the wrong 

AE: [00:08:34] tree. I feel like I'm going to be making this noise a lot.

Just shaking my head 

CA: [00:08:41] at the end. I'll tell you what inspired this whole topic for today because. So we're going to be talking about mansplaining mansplaining as it relates to sexism. And because you can't separate the two, obviously, right? 

AE: [00:08:54] Oh, I am here 

CA: [00:08:55] for it. I'll tell you the sexist thing I heard, uh, last Sunday at the end.

Okay. Okay. 

AE: [00:09:00] I'm getting riled up already. I know body is ready. Let's do this. 

CA: [00:09:05] Okay. Let's talk about mansplaining. Okay. The definition of mansplaining is a pejorative term meeting of a man to commit or explain something to a woman in a condescending overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner.

Lily Rothman from the Atlantic says it's defined as explaining without regard to the fact that they explained, he knows more than the explainer. Now I know that everyone listening has definitely heard this term. Like it's a popping open term, people know, and you already know what it means, so we're not going to get.

Into the weeds as much with that, as much as we are the origin of the term and then sexism and implications. Okay. The term mansplaining was inspired by the essay. Quote, men explain things to me, facts didn't get in their way by Rebecca Solnit. And it was published on Tom dispatch.com, Tom dispatch, Tom dispatch, Jeeves on April 13th, 2008.

Okay. And she didn't actually use the word mansplaining in her essay. Right. But she was noticeably or notably the first to describe this phenomenon as something that quote, every woman knows. Right. In fact, she gave a speech about 10 years later that said she's actually pretty ambivalent about the word mansplaining, but in 2014, she published another article called men.

Explain things to me. There was a collection of, I think, seven. No essays that were all along the same vein of women, experiencing men explaining things to them. So when we talk about mansplaining, I, I think part of it is that we're thinking like cis-gendered white privileged men and we'll talk more about sexism in just a moment.

But I also want to recognize that it's not just men explaining things to women. It's people who feel privileged and entitled explaining things to other people in a condescending way. Sure. So, okay. It's 

AE: [00:11:01] assuming that the other party literally doesn't know, 

CA: [00:11:03] right. Even though the other party probably knows more, it's like the savior 

AE: [00:11:07] complex.

CA: [00:11:07] Exactly. Rebecca Solnit. When she wrote her first article had gone to a party with her friend, she ends up talking to this guy for a little bit and. The guy says, Oh, you're a writer. And she says, yes, I've written a few books. One just came out and she told him the name of the book. And he was like, Oh, someone else just wrote a really amazing book on, uh, about that same topic.

And they started explaining it to her. And she was like, I literally wrote that book. I'm the author of the book. But you were explaining to me, 

AE: [00:11:38] no, it took 

CA: [00:11:40] her three tries before this guy was like, Oh my gosh, You're that person. Oh my God. Which  yeah. I mean, on so many levels. So the idea for mansplaining originally wasn't intended to be political mansplaining happens everywhere from academia to the airport and even around the dining room table.

AE: [00:12:00] Yeah. I don't actually see it as political. I think it's, I think it's everywhere 

CA: [00:12:05] and that's kind of the point that I got to, which is the personal is political in a lot of ways. So I tried to Google the phrase, the personal is political because I thought it was something that bell hooks had said, who's a feminist writer, but found that no one actually knows the origin of that phrase and American feminist, Carol Hanisch wrote about it in the 1970s.

And she argued that many personal experiences can be traced to one's location within a system of power and relationships specifically men's power and women's oppression. So I think when you look at mansplaining as a thing that happens and every conversation, whether it's, you know, At the grocery store or at home or wherever then you're right.

It's pretty, it doesn't feel political. Right. But when you look at it as a system of power that set up between men and then women's oppression, right. It feels much 

AE: [00:12:57] more political. Yeah. There's two categories. There's like work and literal government and politics. Yeah. For media maybe. And then there's like your every day, just like interactions with other people who would assume to be on the same level or status as you.

So like we're all at the grocery store, like you said, we're on an even playing field. You and I are. Occupying the same space. And yet the mansplaining consists in both of those two. 

CA: [00:13:24] Absolutely. Yeah. And I think that that's one of the things about why this subtle sexism is so frustrating is because theoretically at the airport, I mean, I have over a hundred, I'm thinking I'm pushing 150 hours of flying at this point, which is not a lot.

I took a few years off between like all the different phases of flying that I've been through, but I'm not I'm by no means a novice, like I know my way around an airplane and an airport. And I practically grew up in the airport in Roxboro and still I have men who walk up and assume that I'm like, they're waiting for my husband.

Right. Or 

AE: [00:14:01] they don't. Right. Yeah. Assumption is, is that you're not there. To fly. 

CA: [00:14:05] Right? Exactly. So I've living here, just a smidge. Um, another example of subtle sexism from the airport. I was talking to a couple of the guys who were in the pilots club because I've been thinking about joining the pilots club, but it's, I mean, Roxboro is not close to where I currently live.

So I asked one of the guys, I said, do you ever have women in the pilots club or have you ever had women in the pilots club? Cause there aren't many women that hang around the airport. This man knows that I'm a pilot and still said, we don't typically let wives join. Oh, 

AE: [00:14:38] no, he did not say that to you. You did.

First of all, you are nobody's wife, right? Oh my God. So burn it down, burn it down, burn it down. 

CA: [00:14:50] Joys of being in predominantly male spaces, like hate that. Well, and what's really interesting about the airport right now is that there are a lot of queer people there, there are several gay couples who are pilots and own airplanes.

Everyone's been really respectful that, you know, piece of my identity, which has been amazing. Yeah. Including the guy who like runs the airport is he views me kind of as his own daughter. Like, but still they say things like either not thinking about me being a pilot. Right or whatever else, like there's this distinct difference between who I am and who I am not and how I, I don't fit into these systems.

Right. So one of the concepts, quinces of mansplaining as pointed out by Solnit is that it keeps women from speaking up and being heard when they date that crushes young women into silence by indicating the way harassment on the street does that is not their world. It trains us into self doubt. And self-limitation just as an exercise as men's unsupported overconfidence.

So there's evidence to support that, the ways that gendered behaviors and communication may also reinforce some of the struggle. Yeah. Like if I am consistently told over and over that women aren't in the pilot's club or that my brother deserves to be in this space more than I do. How does that impact imposter syndrome or how does that impact your long-term confidence?

Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I spent way too much time thinking about last weekend 

AE: [00:16:17] also, you know, women would probably at some point possibly stop trying. So that kind of yeah. Snowballs into the, to the current existing issue. Right. And 

CA: [00:16:27] like I said earlier, Solnit was specifically talking about dating because that's what inspired her first article.

There is this crushing silence. The way that men impose themselves in women's lives or people in power impose themselves over oppressed people to keep them in self-doubt. Yeah. So who's really benefiting from mansplaining. It's the men or the person who's doing it. 

AE: [00:16:54] I mean, it reminds me of, you know, we've discussed gender roles before and oftentimes the mansplaining in my personal experience comes from like in the work and, and political world is one thing, but I'll speak on the other side.

Really. It's mostly things that they assume that I'm not educated in. 

CA: [00:17:15] Right? Nope. And that's exactly what it is. And there's a great, um, flow chart that we're going to have to share.

but it basically like explains to men how to know whether or not they're mansplaining based on the assumption that women may or may not know something. Right. Get out 

AE: [00:17:33] your, uh, your cheat sheet. 

CA: [00:17:36] Yep. Okay. So for instance, in school, boys are encouraged to talk more and take more time. Women are interrupted more than men, which I find really interesting is there's research to suggest that women are.

Interrupted more frequently by both men and other women. 

AE: [00:17:50] I interrupt you all the time. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Are you 

CA: [00:17:56] allowed to interrupt me, but no, you're right. Yeah. Women rarely interrupt men. Like people just don't interrupt men the way that everyone interrupts women. Right. And again, I'm saying women, I understand that, you know, gender is a social construct and all of these things, I am quoting specifically from some research here.

Okay. So the language that we use to describe assertive women is often negative or assuming confidence without substance, or generally just kind of being abrasive. So even the language that we're using to talk about women. Yeah is problematic. And I think it all contributes to, so sexism is the overarching problem.

Mansplaining is one symptom of that language is another symptom of that. Sure. But they all contribute to each other too. 

AE: [00:18:46] Oh, 1000%, I think also about other, um, about the podcasting industry in general, I think podcasts that have male podcasters. Possibly have less concerned about sounding credible and, uh, over maybe having anxiety about being perceived as having the correct information.

Oh, that's 

CA: [00:19:05] a really amazing point. I 

AE: [00:19:06] think we talk about that all the time. We're really concerned about delivering the correct information because 

CA: [00:19:12] people aren't going to competence for us. Sure. Which is really frustrating. And I think it goes back to a comment that we have used before, which is just to assume competence, regardless of who you're talking to, regardless of race, gender, uh, country of origin, assume that people are, you know, the experts on their lives.

So in 2010, mansplaining was included in the New York times as one of the words of the year in 2010, in 2010. I remember the concept arose really in 2008. Eight in 2012, it was the American dialect. Society's most creative word of the year. And in 2014 it was added to the Oxford English dictionary. Okay. So gentlemen, how about a helpful tip for ways to identify if you're about to be an ally?

AE: [00:19:58] Oh 

CA: [00:19:58] no. Did the person ask you to explain something or did you ask them if they needed something to be explained if the person said yes, then you are not mansplaining. So if they obviously have asked 

AE: [00:20:10] you for help 

CA: [00:20:11] yup. Or if you've asked them if they need help and they say, yes, Then you're probably good to go.

There's some gray area. If you have more relevant experience and by a fair amount, like not just a little bit of relevant vent experience, but I just assumed, right. But a, you know, great deal of relevant experience and ask if someone needs something explained you might be okay, like 

AE: [00:20:34] perhaps you're a professor, 

right?

CA: [00:20:37] Otherwise you are probably being condescending and an ass. So a lot of this is also rooted in bias and assumption. Are you making assumptions about competence and intelligence? So we've talked a lot about sexism. So let's talk about some of the other isms and ways that splaining like as a suffix is being used.

And current rhetoric. Okay. A lot of this is rooted in bias and assumption. So like, are you making assumptions about competence and intelligence and also what is the impact on power dynamics in society? So another form of splaining is white splaining whitesplaining is a comment on the minority experience or explaining racism to a person of color in a condescending manner, especially regarding race or injustice related issues.

Would you like a few examples? 

AE: [00:21:23] I wouldn't, well, I mean, love slash also hate to hear something perfect. 

CA: [00:21:29] Uh, here are some examples at Ali naughty, which from Twitter said the other try to whitesplain to me that they are, there are bigger issues for natives to worry about the mascots, to which I promptly told him that he didn't get to decide what native issues are more important.

Among other things. So we don't get to tell people of color, especially indigenous by BIPOC people of color, 

AE: [00:21:56] how you should feel about, um, 

CA: [00:21:57] about anything. Yeah. Yeah. Um, another example could be quoting Martin Luther King to whitesplain to black protestors, how they should be behaving. Oh, no. Yeah. So that all falls under white splaining.

Oh, 

AE: [00:22:09] my God. Read the room. 

CA: [00:22:13] Other offsprings include Klansplaning. You're really going to hate this. 

AE: [00:22:17] I hate the way it sounds already is from 

CA: [00:22:20] the volatile mermaid on Twitter. Ooh. It says quote, uh, when a Trump supporter tells you that all of this country's problems are because of immigrants and minorities, that's called klansplaining.

Okay.

AE: [00:22:32] Oh my God. Wow. It's interesting that they associated those words. Yep. Together. 

CA: [00:22:38] Yep. Okay. Yep. Um, there's also rightsplaining, gaysplaining, straightsplaining, et cetera. So what I think is interesting about this is the gaysplaining. I understand straight splaining, like straight people, oppressing.

LGBTQ queer plus people and explaining things to them in a specific condescending way. But recognizing that this also happens with an queer communities, I was going to say important. 

AE: [00:23:05] Well, and I wonder if the gay splaining is like an overarching term for LGBT splaining within the community. It is, yeah. The alphabet mafia, if you will.

Um, yeah, that to me seems like that's what that would mean, but also, yeah, but then why would they, nobody in the LGBT community would coin that term for themselves as an umbrella term within the LGBTQ community. 

CA: [00:23:31] I think that there is, there are definitely power dynamics within the LGBTQ plus community, which is why, like the term gold star lesbian has kind of gone by the wayside is because it creates a power dynamic.

And the idea that there is a better gay for a better lesbian than other lesbians or which is just not true. But we can dig deeper into that at some point. Right? One thing I was surprised not to see was ablesplaining, like able-bodied or neuro-typical people explaining things to disabled and not, and neurodivergent people, um, maybe that term just hasn't been coined yet.

Hmm. Which means, I guess you heard it here for first folks. Um, however, we already speak over disabled people. So frequently the unpacking, all of the implications of that would be far beyond the scope of an hour long episode. One of the things that is just safe to do is assume that people's lived experiences are just as valuable, diverse, and informed as your own, unless someone specifically asks you for an explanation.

So at the end of researching this, I asked myself what the boundary is with educating people about mansplaining and actually mansplaining, which I think is similar to what we were, you know, just kind of you were asking me. Yeah. Was how, if we are educating people about, um, disability issues. How do we ensure that we are not splaining things to them?

Yeah, for sure. Anybody. And I think that part of this is there's a consent involved in podcasting. Um, you are consenting to listening to our podcast, um, knowing what the topics are, especially going in, which is something that we were really intentional about. So you knew coming into this episode that we will be talking about mansplaining and whatever Allie's mystery topic is that I don't know yet, but you all do because it's in the title.

Um, we're also interested in a dialogue. Like we don't want to assume people's experiences. We are sharing information research. Um, we also are semi knowledgeable and a lot of the things that we talk about, but we are by no means experts. And I think that we tried to make that pretty clear, but we're interested in the conversation and a dialogue.

We're not just shouting into the void, even though my anxiety wishes that we were just shouting into the void, some days. 

AE: [00:25:48] That there was no audience. 

CA: [00:25:50] Uh, occasionally I still tell myself that there is no audience just because it makes life a little bit less scary, but I want to leave you with one last quote from Ms.

Solnit. And it says, men explain things to me still. And no man has ever apologized for explaining wrongly things that I know and they don't. And I think that that's one of the things that you and I really do want to be intentional about is if we get something wrong, we want to have a conversation about it.

We want to make sure that we are helping. Educate and share knowledge and information and not, you know, making assumptions about entire groups of people. Oh yeah. Um, based on a very limited perspective, even though I think we're all human and we all fall prey to some 

AE: [00:26:38] of that, you know, it's interesting because earlier today I was watching the YouTubes, as you know, I love to do, and I was watching an interview with Tyra banks and she was discussing how, you know, during quarantine everybody's like bingeing, all these TV shows and America's next top model is one of those really popular shows.

And some things kind of came out about how problematic the show has been over the course of its. You know, 18 seasons or however many, one of which is that she did a, a race swap photo shoot. And she also did a 

CA: [00:27:11] race as in, a person's race, 

AE: [00:27:14] a person's race. Oh, okay. Yes. That sounds problematic. Yeah, it is. And, um, she did another photo shoot related to like, uh, changing a person's race in, in a photo.

So anyway, you know, she came on the show and basically she was like, you know, basically saying the same thing. She's like, look, I was coming from it as a, a way to like celebrate, you know, blah, blah, blah. But I understand now, That, that was really wrong. And she's like, look, I did a show about it on the Tyra show back in the early two thousands.

She's like, but none of the people who are watching this interview now have seen the Tyra show. Like you guys are too young and she's like, I'm appalled. I apologize. And I'll pop probably be apologizing in the next 10 years also. Cause there's going to be a new group of people who haven't seen this interview.

And that's just the process. It's really important to own up to the mistakes that you've made and, and growing. And, um, you know, basically she was like, it's my job to, to make sure to make this right. And there's other things about the Tyra show that I have come out recently that are problematic, but I did, I did think that that was.

Uh, relatable and important to note for your specific? Um, Oh, absolutely. And I 

CA: [00:28:22] think so I don't want to go too much into cancel culture because I'll probably cover it at some point. You're familiar with cancel culture. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I feel like everyone is at this point. Yeah. Cancel them by thinking about Dr.

Seuss, who was like the most recent person that I've heard people talk about? Dr. Seuss is long gone. Yes. His publishing house decided to stop publishing I think six books because of their racist implications, like the artwork or the language that was used, they were highly problematic. And we know that Dr.

Seuss was not like a perfect person. Um, I don't 

AE: [00:29:01] know anything about the guy. Really not a thing. You did not want anything. No girl, I don't have tik-toc 

CA: [00:29:08] girl. This was all over the news and Facebook. Okay. I live under a rock. Well, anyways, people accused the left of trying to cancel Dr. Seuss for racism and other things.

Basically the publishing house came out and said, no, this has nothing to do with the left. We made this decision because we have grown and we realized that this is problematic. And still the far right is just up in arms because they think the left is trying to cancel Dr. Seuss, which is not the case.

Like none of the six books. I think it was six. None of the books that they decided to stop publishing were even best-sellers it's not like cat in the hat or the 

AE: [00:29:48] cat in the hat, right? Oh, T girls stop right there. We're getting off topic anyway. We're way off topic. 

CA: [00:29:54] And I don't want to cover that one without having all of my ducks in a row.

AE: [00:29:59] Hate it. I know don't love it. Yeah. But also important to note. So, um, yeah, mansplaining is a crazy, crazy thing and well, 

CA: [00:30:10] and I think that the big takeaway here is it's all rooted in power dynamics who has the control and who is, um, being disenfranchised. I think 

AE: [00:30:20] it's about how you're raised. I mean, men are normally raised in boys are raised.

To have confidence in general and you know, only to ask permission from their fathers. So why would they assume that they, I dunno, it's just a lot of, um, confidence and, and, and I think it 

CA: [00:30:38] social conditioning too, like a lot of this happens. I mean, we spend more time at school than we do at home. Once we have graduated from high school, like the hours spent around other people who are not, your parents are pretty, your waking hours at least are drastically more than what you spend at home with your parents.

I feel so fortunate in that my dad is an incredible human being who recognizes a lot of issues around sexism and recognizes it as a problem without me having to point it out to him. Right. And still some of what he learned and what other men in our family learned was a result of social conditioning.

Not necessarily. Who raised them in the ways that they were raised. Sure. So it's a combo. Yeah. I think society has a big 

AE: [00:31:26] impact on spending combo with a diet Coke. Right. That was good. Okay. You 

CA: [00:31:33] ready for mine? I'm done talking to you. Your turn. 

AE: [00:31:37] Okay. Girl, buckle up. 

CA: [00:31:39] Okay. You 

AE: [00:31:40] ready to go? Her going for a journey?

Okay. Okay. Today, my friend, we are going to be talking about the synoptic. Gospels the, of the buying of the disco song. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to be talking about the Bible, the bib Ellie. I have, yes. I have one right here actually. Um, and something I do want to know in the beginning of my notes here is that the majority, like a lot of research that I did was from the Harper Collins study Bible, which is predominantly the Bible that they use in.

And if you take a college course on Christianity or the new Testament, normally you're going to be using that as your text, right. For your classes. 

CA: [00:32:24] So is this what you use when you were getting your religious studies? That is correct? Yes. That's why you have the Bible. 

AE: [00:32:29] That's why I own it. Okay. And I have a lot of, um, notes.

Can you see my sticky notes? Oh my goodness. 

CA: [00:32:35] So many sticky notes. 

AE: [00:32:37] All right. You ready? Yes. Okay. So Jesus was born between two and six BC. So the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke both give timelines for the birth of Jesus, but they do differ slightly. So Matthew States that Jesus was born about two years.

CA: [00:32:55] I'm sorry, go ahead. It's back up. Just a smudge. Yes. So you said the synoptic gospels, I'm going to get to it. Okay. So, but it's Matthew, Mark, Luke and John 

AE: [00:33:03] it's. Matthew, Mark, and Luke. John was not invited. John is not invited to that. 

CA: [00:33:07] Okay. Okay. Continue. I'm sorry. I just wanted to see who we were going to be.

AE: [00:33:11] Yes. And I'll be talking to you. I just want to give back up between yeah.  was born during these years. Jesus was born between two and six BC. So the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke, which we will be talking about today, both give timelines for the birth of Jesus, but they do differ slightly. So that's why we say between two and six BC, we know that Mary is Jesus's mother and she was impregnated by the Holy ghost.

We know the immaculate conception concept. We're not going to spend too much time on that. 

CA: [00:33:43] It was an angel. It was God. It was something. Yup. Jesus definitely not sex. 

AE: [00:33:47] Nope, but we're not part of the narrative. That's correct. So we are going to be talking about the synoptic gospels, but there are other texts that we it's important to note kind of for the, for the history of it.

The Muratorian Canon, which dates back to around 200 AD is the earliest compilation of biblical texts that we know of. Oh, it wasn't for another hundred years or so that all of the different churches that at the time agreed on a basic collection of texts that King James Bible was first printed in the early 17th century.

However, there have been a few more texts that have been discovered since then since the compilation of those texts. So the gospel of Mary was discovered in Egypt in 1896. Okay, so that discusses 

CA: [00:34:34] and that's Mary Magdalen, not Virgin Mary, correct? Yes. I have a copy of the gospel of Judas. 

AE: [00:34:41] Oh, good. We're going to talk about that in just a second.

Well, you have a copy of it. I do. I 

CA: [00:34:44] have the gospel of Judas and the gospel of Thomas. Yeah. 

AE: [00:34:48] Thomas common one, which we'll also mention here in a minute, Thomas is usually included in like the Bibles that you read. Like the theological Bible. So like the Harper Collins has it in there actually really like the book of Thomas, I think too.

It's really beautiful. Yeah, it is. It's one of my favorites you can borrow my copy of, I would really love to thank you very much. 50. Um, unused texts were also found in Egypt as well in 1945, uh, which were known as the Gnostic gospels. I've heard of those. Yes. Among those texts was the gospel of Thomas shout out to Thomas Thomas, the gospel of Philip.

Oh, I don't know him. Phillip is the one that implies that there was a marriage between Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Oh, okay. 

CA: [00:35:32] Yes. 

AE: [00:35:32] I've heard that theory. Those two date back to around 120AD. 

CA: [00:35:36] Okay. So still a hundred and something years after Jesus dies. 

AE: [00:35:40] So yes. So Jesus died. Yes. Essentially, well, yeah, ish.

Yes, the book of, 

CA: [00:35:46] and I'm sure you're going to get to all of this, but they were all written at least a hundred years after his death, right?

AE: [00:35:51] No, not necessarily a hundred. Um, we will get to the timeline. 

CA: [00:35:54] Cool, cool. I'll stop interrupting you. 

AE: [00:35:57] So just to give some clarity for the overall Jesus was born between two and six, some would say four and six, some say two to four, like in school we learn two to four, but in the research that I did further, you know, the, the range was expanded a little bit.

Yeah. Um, Jesus began preaching around between 27 and 29AD, so we're not in BC anymore. And then he, he. Died between 30 and 36. Okay. 

CA: [00:36:24] So he was in his thirties when he died, like 32 is kind of accepted age. Right. Okay. So 

AE: [00:36:30] he only preached 

CA: [00:36:31] for 

AE: [00:36:32] between one to three years. When you say the book of Judas, which we just talked about was found in Egypt as well in the 1970s, this book dates back to 280AD.

CA: [00:36:43] Okay. So almost 300 years. 

AE: [00:36:45] Yeah, it's all. Okay. Um, yeah, about two 50, two 50, but let's discuss the actual gospels. So what's the gospel. You may hear people kind of talking about preaching the gospel and that's kind of the overall. Storyline of the life of Jesus, the birth of Jesus, like what he 

CA: [00:37:06] did, man, first few books of the new 

AE: [00:37:08] Testament.

Correct. But when people talk about the gospel, like preaching the gospel, it's just about Jesus' life, death, resurrection, and his teachings. Um, the gospels are the four texts at the beginning of the new Testament, like you just said. And the, in the modern day Bible, um, they discuss also the life and death of Jesus Christ.

We know them as the gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but who wrote them and what was their intended audience. Those are the things that are interesting to me. That's what we're going to be talking about today. Who wrote them? 

CA: [00:37:42] You mean it? Wasn't Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? No. 

AE: [00:37:45] Oh, it was not.

So we're not going to be talking about John so much. The synoptic gospels are. Basically like what? It sounds like it's a synopsis it's about his life and death, right. John is kind of in its own realm. Okay. Was written last. It came out way later. It also has a lot of differences that we'll kind of we'll cross that 

CA: [00:38:10] bridge here.

She was not invited to the gospel party.

AE: [00:38:12] Correct. I'm going to be discussing them in the order that they're written. Not the order that they're in the Bible. Okay. So that means that Mark is first and again, I'm going to be using the Harper Collins study Bible as my largest frame of reference here. A lot of quotes from that.

So Mark is the quote author of the book. So who's Mark who's Mark. One theory is that Mark was said to be the interpreter of Peter who was a disciple and that he wrote down what Peter said, which was accurate, what he said, but the timeline was a little bit off. That's one theory. Others say that Mark was mentioned by papayas and many of the other books.

So that could have also been the Mark that they were talking about. Other people argue that the gospel was written by an anonymous person and that name Mark was associated with the texts later in the second century. 

CA: [00:39:01] That would make sense to me. When I think about like named at this point, the Mark Luke and John are, they feel very 

AE: [00:39:09] whitewashed.

They were very common and that's actually my next quote. Oh, quote, since the name Mark was not uncommon in the first century, it is uncertain whether all the references given here refer to the same Mark for never the less, it is likely that those who first copied the gospel for circulation knew who the author was.

And therefore the traditional name of the author is reliable. Okay. 

CA: [00:39:35] I don't know why it's so surprising to me that the named Mark is that old. 

AE: [00:39:39] Yeah. Oh yeah. It's interesting, right? It is really interesting. I know a few marks. The gospel does not make it clear where the text was written or by whom, but it is most widely accepted that it was written in Rome.

The use of Aramaic terms and whole sentences, along with translation into Greek suggests that the author was aware that some of the people in his intended audience knew Aramaic. And some might've not the timeframe in which this book was written is also kind of wide it's believed to have been written during the war between the Jews and the Romans between 66 CE and 75 CE.

And we know that the temple was destroyed in 70 CE and this state is most commonly used as the date that the book was written. Okay. And by book, I mean text, where would he sat down and was like, I'm going to write a gospel. It was just a lot of the letter or a lot of the books in the Bible were letters.

Like, we'll talk about Paul here shortly. But most of his texts were letters back to the churches that he had established, um, Corinthians is considered to be the earliest written book in the new Testament. Hm. So fun fact research shows that the text, um, initially ended at chapter 16, verses eight. However, the other gospels were written and accumulated together kind of later.

And Mark's ending seemed to be a little abrupt, kind of just ended kind of quickly, um, in comparison to the others. How does 

CA: [00:41:07] his end. Does it like, does it end with Jesus coming back? 

AE: [00:41:12] No, it ends before the resurrection. Okay. Um, and basically that's then added later 

CA: [00:41:20] Jesus died full stop. Yes. Next book. 

AE: [00:41:23] So it's thought that 16, 9- 20 were added later by various scribes.

However, some say that 16.8 was not the original end and that the original end was either incorporated into the longer ending or it was lost. And the additional texts like you just asked, discussed Jesus's resurrection and visiting Mary Magdalen and two of his disciples, although he doesn't mention which two.

Okay. It just says visited two disciples, 

CA: [00:41:49] probably Bartholomew or Thomas. 

 You think? So those are the two that I remembered off hand. 

AE: [00:41:54] The intended audience for Mark's gospel was likely other Jews. The intent for the gospel seemed to be to essentially solidify. So Mark is like, listen guys, this guy's legit.

He's, you know, he's the real deal. Um, Jesus is the Messiah and Jesus did suffer and die. That was like the main purpose. That was the, the thesis statement for Mark. The majority of the gospel was spent telling the stories of the miracles of Jesus. And Mark is the shortest. And Mark is this first gospel to portray Jesus speaking in parables.

And he's also the first to discuss that Jesus walked on water. So the earliest opinions were that the author of Matthew was the tax collector and disciple of Jesus quote, various consideration. It's cast serious doubt on those ancient views. First, the gospel of Matthew contains, but is not itself a collection of sayings.

Second Hebrew version of this gospel exists, but it's medieval and scholars argue that the gospel was originally written in Greek. Thus, it is not a translation. Third, the author of Matthew was almost certainly aware that the deconstruction of Jerusalem and the temple on 70 CE fourth, Jesus has main opponents in the story are farracies whose authorities develop predominantly in the late first century.

And fifth, according to the widely held scholarly opinion, the major sources of the author were the Greek gospel of Mark and an additional source, which we'll talk about later. Okay. This suggests that Matthew was written after 70 and probably between 80 and 90AD, it was most likely written by a multi-lingual person, probably in Israelite this person, most likely a man would have known a lot about the Israeli tradition.

So what were the circumstances at the time that this was written was like one of the things I was like, what's going on right now. Right? So the Roman empire, during that time, there was no middle class, basically either. You were like super rich or super poor 

CA: [00:44:01] America today. 

AE: [00:44:04] Well, 

CA: [00:44:05] or America a little about 10 years 

AE: [00:44:08] more.

Yeah. Extreme, unfortunately, but a very few powerful men were in power, which does sound a little bit like what you're referring to. Yep. The other side of the coin was that there were the people who were very poor were most likely farmers, fishermen artisans. Okay. Artisan cheese. Um, there were a very few quote undesirables, which would have been considered quote, beggars bandits and sex workers.

So Jesus is portrayed as an advocate for the quote undesirables as well as the lower-class. We hear him talk about lepers, bandits, fishermen, and beggars, and Mathew women were also mentioned. However, it's pretty clear that this book was written by a man. For a man, right? Mansplained mansplained. Yes.

Intersectionality right there. The gospel of Matthew implies that Jesus is a descendant of the King David. And, um, is the promise Messiah. So this is the, uh, we here in Matthew, the story of Herod where, um, Herod is the King and he orders the killing of all the babies in the city. Right. Um, to basically secure his place in the kingdom.

Right. That's the only place in the, the, any of the gospels that we hear this story. Oh, so that's in Matthew. Matthew is the first time we hear about the birth of Jesus, as well as the resurrection. So in the original books of Mark. Remember the resurrection wasn't in there. So this is the first time we're really hearing about that.

CA: [00:45:41] I wonder if that's why it was ordered first in so many of the Bibles is, I mean, if you're, um, you know, trying to share a miracle, then you want to put your, your book that has the miracle in it before the book 

AE: [00:45:56] that does that well. And they also, for a long time originally had believed that Matthew was written first.

It was intended to be in order of, of. The gotcha. However it's been kind 

CA: [00:46:07] of, so it may have had less to do with the psychology of, you know, convincing people of things and more to do with the timeline. Correct. The perceived timeline. Okay. 

AE: [00:46:17] I got it. It is not that Matthew was written by other Jewish Christians, just like the author.

So remember everybody forgets that Jesus is a Jew and Judaism is a big thing, obviously in the time and all of these Bibles, right? I mean, gospels, thank you. Matthew's gospel highlights, quote, Israelite features such as poetic parallels, scribal arguments and emphasis on the law, religious practices and piety symbolic numbers, scriptural, quotation, and fulfillment, genealogy baptism as a right of entry, a special meal related to Passover and communal disciples and prayer.

In this interpretation, Jesus becomes the authoritative interpreter of Moses, but also the promised Messianic King of Israel. Matthew is also. Speaking to Matthew and Mark speaking to the Jewish communities at the time. So their points are to solidify that Jesus is the Messiah. Um, and then also Matthew, like, Hey, you know, there's a lot more Judaism in here than you might originally.

Right? Um, so those are the audiences at both of them. We're going to move on to Luke, which is the only gospel where Jesus doesn't walk on water. So who wrote Luke? The book itself references a lot of existing texts, which is super interesting. So we're kind of moving along the timeline here, which we'll get to in a second, but Luke has a.

Book that comes right after it. The acts of the apostles also known as acts. Oh, okay. Um, so that's like the sequel to Luke and it appears after John. So it's a fifth book in the new Testament. Um, but the acts is picks off essentially where Luke leaves off and discusses the spread of Christianity and Rome.

CA: [00:48:06] So what in correct me if I'm wrong, but what I just heard you say is that Matthew May have informed Mark. No, Mark May have informed Matthew, which may have informed Luke. So what's the chance that all these guys were in like a book club together. And they're like, Hey, this is what I just wrote. Why don't you read it and see, 

AE: [00:48:22] yes, that's very likely, and my last point is going to get to that.

Perfect. So Luke is the most comprehensive of the texts so far, so. There was a prologue for Luke and the prologue of the gospel makes it clear that the author relies heavily on eyewitness accounts, which makes a lot of sense because this book was written between 85 and 95. So I mean, we're talking, you know, 60 years after.

Sure. So, you know, the death of Jesus. So at this point, the eyewitness accounts are growing less and less, but still possible, still possible. However, the author of Luke doesn't claim to be an eyewitness, he's collecting information from other people. 

CA: [00:49:01] So he's interviewing people, 

AE: [00:49:02] correct. He's compiling. The book of Luke is so interesting because it's literally a collection of texts.

So this guy went out and. Did his best to research and do a, you know, a chronological account of Jesus's life. So as opposed to using one or two sources, he really did his research. Wow. Yes, Luke is my favorite in Acts, the sequel and the use of we is used to refer to Paul and Luke okay. Together. Gotcha. Which suggests that Luke may have traveled with Paul and known him, however, the portrayal of Paul in Acts conflicts at numerous points with his self testimony and Paul's own writings.

Okay. So it's unclear. Gotcha. But Luke is considered to be the first Christian historian. For example, he discusses Jesus making his way into Jerusalem. Quote, his travel is a creation of Luke, which selected material, a various origins arranged it into the framework of a journey among other purposes. So he went out and found texts and was like this as a chronological order.

So he placed it directly in order. 

CA: [00:50:11] Oh, okay. So he's the researcher type. We like the way that his brain works. 

AE: [00:50:14] Yes. We like Luke. We know that Luke's audience is Greek speaking and knowledgeable about scripture already. So his audience are Gentile, most likely Christians, uh, which is the first that we've seen because we know that, um, the Jewish community was the intended audience for our other two books.

One of the most important things that Luke is trying to portray in his book is that the church stands alongside the ancient people, which he means the Jewish people, but also represents a new development that fulfills. God's purpose, universalizing, salvation. And what that means is he's like, Hey, we can all get along, 

CA: [00:50:57] which is so interesting given, you know, the future of Christianity and Judaism.

AE: [00:51:04] And I think for a selfish reason and I'll, which is because he's really sure to, uh, to say that being Christian as harmless in the Roman order and that you can both be a Roman and a Christian. And so really, you know, Christianity in its early times was like a weird thing to be. Yeah. And Christians, we know in Rome were killed by the masses and, um, because they were like, it wasn't widely accepted until Alexander, I believe in the Roman empire.

And so he was the one that really made it mainstream. Oh for them, they didn't believe it in the masses. Fascinating. Okay. So this is when the church kind of emerged as a community of Jews, Gentiles, Romans, and non Romans. So the reason I love this book so much, and the time that it was written too, it's just really about inclusion and kind of developing Christianity as a whole.

It's like the most positive, like intent, uh, for the faith. So, okay. Yeah. Pretty cool. Which I think 

CA: [00:52:11] all of this is so interesting given the way that you and I have talked about religion. Yeah. Many times for sure. And neither of us are particularly religious. But understanding the context and the purpose and like who wrote them and when is really fascinating, you're shaking your head at me and it's important.

It's super important. Yeah. And I think that the fact that we can appreciate them without salt, absolutely believing I love, love. Yeah, I really do. Yeah. So I just think that that's an interesting thing to note here. Yep. 

AE: [00:52:44] So Luke also has parables that don't appear in any of the other texts, including the parable about the good Samaritan, which you might be familiar with that lens of Godspell.

I think I need to get behind them. I need to watch it. 

CA: [00:52:58] I love Godspell. It's like Jesus Christ, superstar, but toned down and actually based on the Bible, have 

AE: [00:53:06] you seen Hamilton 2? Where Hamlet to Hamlet, Hamlet to rock me, rock me, rock me. Sexy. Jesus. I have it on DVD I'll let you borrow it. Okay, please. Let's talk about John, 

CA: [00:53:23] John only briefly though. Cause he's not invited to, this 

AE: [00:53:26] is not, no, this'll be super brief. So John, we're not going to be discussing in detail because it's not a, one of the synoptic and the reason it's not in the synoptic gospels is because it's like literally in a league of its own, there's all kinds of stuff that's in. There was Rosie O'Donnell in there.

She was not in there. Okay. But every everything else and the kitchen sink is in there, but to me and John was kind of written and my personal opinion kind of for the ratings, it was written last. And so it had a chance to kind of read the other three and it's a little bit more, it takes a lot of liberties.

I would say. It also has a really, it has the most hostile depiction between Jesus and the Jewish peop faith, the Jews, which is interesting because Jesus was a Jew. And we know that, um, it's most likely written from the opinions of the times, the verses when Jesus lived. So, you know, understanding again, we talk about lenses all the time.

You know, things kind of bleed into, uh, the opinions of authors sometimes when they, when they write, um, Some of the stuff that John talks about, you can't find anywhere else, which is interesting. Um, Luke says that Jesus is God, which is 

CA: [00:54:38] interesting because Jesus never said that he himself has God, 

AE: [00:54:41] the general kind of theme of John.

We know that it was written kind of as a persuasive gospel. So the intent behind John is conversion. So this is when we first see, instead of, you know, a Theo theological, um, conference documentation, just like what was happening. This is a much more text. Okay. So that's, it's 

CA: [00:55:05] fascinating, interesting contrast to Luke who is like peace, love harmony money.

Luke 

AE: [00:55:10] was like, let me do my research. This is what's up. Yeah. And then John's like, You know, a little bit more sly with it. It's a little bit more, he was the younger brother. It was saturation. He read from 

CA: [00:55:21] the once to antagonize. And there we 

AE: [00:55:23] go. So back to your original question about the sources for all of these, we are going to be briefly talking about the two and four source theories.

Okay. So the two source theory says, uh, which I touched on briefly in a quote that I mentioned earlier, but essentially it claims that the books of Matthew and Luke both use the book of Mark to write their gospels. It also says there would be an additional source, which we'll call Q. And whether the Q source was oral traditions, weren't actual text is unclear, but there would have been, um, it would have been used also in addition to Mark, uh, to write Matthew and Luke.

Okay. So that's the two source theory. The four source theory says that the gospel of Matthew and the gospel of Luke had at least four sources. So Mark was a source cue, which we know from the two source theory, as well as an M and N L Oh yes. 

CA: [00:56:26] Mark 

AE: [00:56:26] and Luke. So M was the first Matthew would have used M and Q as the source.

Okay. Luke would have used Q and L 

CA: [00:56:39] make sense 

AE: [00:56:40] to me. So Luke wouldn't have known about em and Matthew wouldn't have known about L. Which is interesting. So there's a few discrepancies, but for the most part, that's why they're called the synoptic. Gospels is because as they grow, they generally like generally share the same information.

Fascinating. So like, Luke, doesn't talk about walking on water. Mark. Doesn't talk about the resurrection, although later it's added. So there, for the most part, you're going to hear a little bit 

CA: [00:57:10] about Matthew is the most. So Luke is potentially the most accurate because they had some eyewitness, he did the research.

AE: [00:57:18] It's, uh, it's all up for interpretation. Okay, cool. I don't 

CA: [00:57:21] know that we're not going to speculate too wildly for 

AE: [00:57:23] this one. No, not me personally, but it's all very interesting. And you can break it down by seeing like what's in common with the texts and what's left out. It goes back to the narrative, you know, who's included and who's not, but.

In general. It's just so fascinating to me. And that is the synoptic gospels. Wow. I was a lot, this was like my most informative one yet. I would say. I 

CA: [00:57:47] think it's so interesting because I mean, I grew up going to church and I know these stories. Yeah. But hearing them in this way is really interesting. Um, and hearing them from a historical perspective and not a persuasive perspective yeah.

Is really fascinating. 

AE: [00:58:02] Great job. Thank you. You're welcome. My plan is, you know, just to kind of lay it all out based on the research that I found and sure. Try not to get, to give as little opinions as possible, but, um, yeah, I'm really interested in motivation and authorship. Like it's so important to understand that in relation to events.

Absolutely. 

CA: [00:58:25] And I think that you have to put it in historical context. You can't remove it and just observe it as it exists today and expect to be able to fully understand it. 

AE: [00:58:36] And it goes back to, you know, what we spoke about earlier. Things change with time. So, you know, Luke Luke's perspective, I mean, excuse me, John's perspective, you know, in his authorship, might've been a little bit, uh, persuaded, I would say by the, his current climate.

And so, yeah, that happens a lot. 

CA: [00:58:56] Well, I think there's also like these books have been translated to multiple languages and interpreted many times since then. Like there are so many versions of the 

AE: [00:59:06] Bible there are, and the original texts we in the new Testament anyway, we know were mostly written in Greek so 

CA: [00:59:15] that they.

Some of the other texts were written in Hebrew and Aramaic 

AE: [00:59:19] and yeah, it depends on if you're talking about new or old Testament. Right. But yeah. But what books are included, what aren't and you know, which ones came out later and, um, It's just all it's crazy stuff. 

CA: [00:59:32] Well, so thinking about intersectionality, because we are an intersectionality podcast, I, one of the things that I find interesting about the Bible in general is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the book of Ruth 

AE: [00:59:47] book of Ruth without go, I will go.

That was lodge. I will lodge, 

CA: [00:59:53] that people will be my people. And I got my God. Um, but the book of Ruth is really the only book that I can think of that was written by a woman that we know are written from a female perspective. Now, I know Esther played a big role in the Bible. 

AE: [01:00:10] I mean, I think it's. Extremely safe to say 99% of the books were written by men.

Yeah. And I 

CA: [01:00:17] think that there's an interesting power dynamic associated with that and just thinking about, but one of the things I think is really interesting is my brother took a class when he was in college called something about God being a woman, like not the Ariana Grande song, but like how 

AE: [01:00:33] religion Dharma it's Alana's Morissette, but 

CA: [01:00:38] how religion, um, you know, impacts the way that we think about gender and sexuality.

Um, Oh yeah. And creating those power dynamics. Like we always imagine God and Jesus as like hyper-masculine, um, but really if God is in omnipresent, Omniscient. Yeah. Being, he is technically above gender and without gender, he is just there. So why do we use male pronouns? 

AE: [01:01:09] Well, and, and it languages a lot to do with it too.

And it does go back to translation as well, because you know, we know German, for example, has a quote neuter it's "der, de, das", right. Those called, um, articles. Yeah. So, you know, and then the romance languages have masculine and feminine, so correct. It could be just down to a translation. 

CA: [01:01:31] Oh, absolutely. And I think that also, I mean, it is of the time, right?

Like, yeah. Oh yeah. There were males dominated things like men could have as many female concubines and women and wives as they wanted. Like that was, and correct me, if I'm wrong on any of this, I'm not a historical 

AE: [01:01:50] that was less of a Judaic and Christian. Like practice, but definitely of the, of the time at the time and the location, but, and back to your original point too, about gender and like authorship, a lot of these things would have been discussed and written down later.

And it's also about education too, because women weren't necessarily educated. And, you know, we know from the, the four source theory is that there's other sources out there. And even the two source theory, like, is it an oral tradition? Is it written down? You know, all of those things haven't necessarily become clear at this 

CA: [01:02:28] time.

And at some point someone decided that voices like Mary Magdalene's did not need to be included, which is why we didn't find her book until later. Yeah. So I think a lot of this goes back to power structures and were developed and how they continue to impact our culture and society and understanding today.

AE: [01:02:47] Absolutely. I think about the King James version of the Bible all the time, which I would say would is, is, uh, to me it's difficult. Uh, it's really widely used. Um, but it's also re written in a really outdated, it's hard to read. It's hard to read and understand. So, um, but then you get into the, the issues again, like you said, what translation, you know, uh, w when you dilute it further and further, uh, even though you might be updating it, you might be losing some of the original intent.

Well, and when you 

CA: [01:03:19] think today about how religion or not religion, how languages. Um, have words that exist in some languages and don't exist in other languages. How much of that was there and we're not just interpreting or translating one language from one language to another it's multiple languages, 

AE: [01:03:35] multiple languages.

And literally this was like translated and hand scribed in. Yeah. You know, it's all, it's very labor intensive. Right. And did, 

CA: [01:03:45] did rely a lot on oral tradition, um, and who sharing the stories and who are they being told? 

AE: [01:03:51] Absolutely. It's crazy. It's so interesting to me. So I hope that you, 

CA: [01:03:56] I feel like I learned so much and I'm super intrigued and I really hope that we come back to this at some point, because there's so much more Oh yeah.

AE: [01:04:03] It's a deep dive into with the Bible. We talked about John, I'm coming for you, John, 

CA: [01:04:10] John, and Ruth episode one. Yeah, maybe. 

AE: [01:04:12] Oh, love it. 

CA: [01:04:14] The book of 

AE: [01:04:14] Ruth is just my fave. Yeah, it's really good. It's used a lot in wedding ceremonies. Yeah. Ray will tell you all the time. He's a videographer. He films, weddings.

Every single weekend. And there's like a handful of Bible verses that they use at weddings because they're so, you know, because they talk about love and they're not about smiting anybody and you know, it's, it's pretty, um, it's a select few. Yeah. 

CA: [01:04:41] I had a, um, a lesbian wedding. I went to a couple of years ago and they said, um, they didn't want Jesus.

Mentioned at their wedding. They didn't want any Bible verses. And they went so far as to say, no men with beards were allowed. Oh my, which I thought was so funny. 

AE: [01:05:00] Wow. Pretty extreme. It's all about being tolerant and about opening your mind to things other than like, we all need to stop being so selfish and stuck in our, our own ways because everybody is entitled to their own opinions and their own ways of belief.

And like, we just all need to everybody let your freak flag fly and do whatever the fuck you want to do. It's none of my fucking business. 

CA: [01:05:26] I mean, I think the moral and I was reading about how. Overarching, like so many religions basically teach the same version of the golden rule. 

AE: [01:05:38] D-BAD we say "Don't be a Dick."

Yeah. 

CA: [01:05:41] Um, which I think if you're living up to that, then everything else kind of falls into place. Do your best to help people at the very least don't be a Dick. Yeah. 

Amen. 

AE: [01:05:50] Signing off. All right. Great job this week. Thanks so much, CA thank you. And thank you guys so much for listening. If you support us blink twice, and if you're out there, keep listening.

Thank you for listening to podcast without an audience. Find us on social media at podwithoutanaud, you can find us on Instagram or Facebook or find us on the web podcastswithoutanaudience.com. Shoot us an email at podwithoutanaud@gmail.com.  Our cover art is created by an actual angel Ashlie Acevedo.

Our music is by Zach Smith and Ted Oliver editing by Jacob Beeson. 

CA: [01:06:28] We hope you enjoyed today's episode and all of our nerdy content, please consider leaving us a five star review on Apple podcast or wherever you listen to today. Oh, and check it out our Patreon for exclusive content and our pasta recipe again.

Thanks and keep listening.

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