Episode 3: Maslow, Chakras, and Avoidable Tragedies - Transcript
CA: [00:00:00] Hi teamsters, I'm Carey Ann
AE: [00:00:17] and I'm Allison, and this is podcast without an audience.
CA: [00:00:21] Where two friends, pick two topics and discuss the intersectionality.
AE: [00:00:24] And that's what we're doing.
CA: [00:00:26] That's what we're here for
AE: [00:00:27] or not. Who knows?
CA: [00:00:29] Um, I had a moment this week, uh, when we were talking and discussing, you know, this podcast and trying to figure out what the intersectionality is.
And you said something about human connection. And I just like, all the alarms went off in my head and I was like, yes, that's exactly what we're doing. We're calling human connection. Intersectionality
and yeah, I think maybe it'll develop into something that's about yeah. How we're all connected together.
AE: [00:00:54] The butterfly effect kind of exactly.
CA: [00:00:56] Yeah. Yeah. Good reference.
AE: [00:00:58] Thank you
CA: [00:00:59] You're so welcome.
AE: [00:00:59] I [00:01:00] got it right this week,
CA: [00:01:03] so I am so, so excited to share this thing with you. I have so many exciting things to share with you really quick. Body is ready. First. Prepare yourself. There is a band in Taiwan. Okay. That does Buddhist death metal.
AE: [00:01:18] Whoa. And it is the greatest thing ever.
CA: [00:01:21] They take Buddhist chants and turn them into death. Yup. Yup. They got the guttural thing going. They fake blood on their face. Nuns opened the show. Really? Yeah.
AE: [00:01:31] Do the nuns perform on their own.
CA: [00:01:33] They, I don't. I only
AE: [00:01:36] Only researched half of the story.
CA: [00:01:38] I only went like five levels in YouTube video.
AE: [00:01:42] So do they have like a following?
CA: [00:01:44] They do.
They have a huge following at this point. Um, their name is Dharma, which is a great name for a Buddhist death metal band. So that's been my, my thing this week is I've been listening to Buddhists death metal.
AE: [00:01:56] So is your Spotify like requesting very [00:02:00] confused, suggesting a lot of interesting things.
It's like sharing a Netflix account with somebody.
CA: [00:02:04] Exactly. Um, except I'm sharing it with myself and the other people who live in my head.
AE: [00:02:10] There you go. It's like that Pixar movie.
CA: [00:02:12] Yeah, Inside Out. That is exactly Anger in my head really loves Buddhist death metal. So does Joy really all everyone's involved with everyone's there in the audience supporting the Buddhist death metal.
AE: [00:02:24] Well, that's fabulous. So if this doesn't work out, maybe we should consider that as a second option.
CA: [00:02:30] We may have to adopt Buddhism as a spiritual practice. Um, so we are a couple of steps away from taking that as our second option, but we could make,
AE: [00:02:39] you know, we only have 40 years left in the workforce.
CA: [00:02:42] Shit.
AE: [00:02:44] I say that all the time is it's the most grounding thing you can ever think about.
CA: [00:02:51] I really did not need to hear that,
AE: [00:02:53] but we need to be thinking about how we're going to spend that time. That's true. I'm doing something productive and [00:03:00] creative and whatever.
CA: [00:03:01] Yeah. Something we really love
AE: [00:03:03] that is to make you happy because. I know that there's people who work at their jobs forever and that are just miserable. It's like the Stanleys of the world. This is a run out the clock situation.
CA: [00:03:14] Yeah. Uh, and we can't all just bring our crossword puzzles and stare at a computer for eight hours a day. Um, I also saw a meme this week that said it's getting harder and harder to jump out of bed and stumble to the kitchen and pour myself a cup of ambition. The nine to five dream just isn't working for me anymore. No.
AE: [00:03:37] Well, and you're working from home. How are you?
CA: [00:03:39] I. I am doing so well. Yeah. I think the best really
AE: [00:03:44] you were made for this. We got catcalled the other day by an eight year old.
CA: [00:03:49] I'd forgotten about that. We did. We got, we were
AE: [00:03:52] Are you okay? Have you unpacked that at all?
CA: [00:03:55] I kind of just blocked it out of my memory. And I'm [00:04:00] refusing to think about all of the implications of being catcalled from the back of it from a kid sitting in the back of a pickup truck.
AE: [00:04:07] Right. So just to kind of set the scene, we were sitting on the porch of our friend's house, kind of having a social distance human interaction time.
It was really nice, really fun. Um, and we're in like a, like a regular neighborhood and then a truck drives by presumably a father is in the front driving. He has his elementary school boys in the back of the truck bed. And they screamed, um, something about calling them.
CA: [00:04:38] Um, yeah, it was, uh, my name is Andrew or something, but you can call me anytime.
However, an eight year old or nine year old pickup line in
AE: [00:04:48] He looked me in my eyes. I know I was the one sitting in the middle. So it was like, everybody else was kind of off to the side. So it was like, I felt like,
CA: [00:04:57] yeah, I really feel like it was one of those paintings where the [00:05:00] eyes just follow you no matter where you are in the room. Because I also felt like he was making direct eye contact with me.
AE: [00:05:04] Maybe I'm just projecting.
CA: [00:05:06] Well, it could also be the, as he drove past, um, he started with you and then turned towards me,
AE: [00:05:12] like everybody's getting some of this
CA: [00:05:14] and no one wanted it well,
AE: [00:05:16] and I really wish that there had been a stop sign or a stoplight.
And I think everybody's really, um, this happens to everybody, but after a situation happens, you realize that you did not react in the way that you would have, because you're kind of in shock. I could have said this, I could have done that, which we'll kind of go back into my, my story today, actually with my topic that I'm discussing. But
CA: [00:05:39] was it inspired by this nine-year-old
AE: [00:05:41] it is not just coincidence, coincidence, actually.
CA: [00:05:44] I love when that happens
AE: [00:05:45] nobody... there's no cat calling in my stories.
CA: [00:05:48] Okay. Um, at least not yet. Nobody
AE: [00:05:50] think about this kid is going to grow show up and be like, he's like, he felt so good about that. You know, really proud of him.
He was brave and like, you know, but like what kind of [00:06:00] conversation does that dad have now with his kid? And like, I'm sure. You know, he probably didn't anyway, I'm 99% sure there was zero conversation.
CA: [00:06:09] Um, I agree. And I feel like, where does this kid learn? How the cat call at such a young age. It's not coincidence that he knows pickup lines.
So clearly he's seen other people do this. Probably dad.
AE: [00:06:22] Dad, you're not listening.
CA: [00:06:25] No one is listening.
AE: [00:06:27] Don't say that. There's a lot of people listening. There's more people than I, I mean, it's true. Oh, you're
CA: [00:06:31] right. I know me too. I'm so excited.
AE: [00:06:34] Yeah. If you're out there, keep listening. So I have something and I feel like at the beginning of the segment, we should have a portion.
That's called guess who died last night because we're just discussing every, like everybody's dropping like flies right now. It's absolutely ridiculous. Larry Flint. Has died. He is the creator of Hustler, the magazine, the Nudie magazine.
CA: [00:06:56] Oh yeah. The straight Nudie magazine.
AE: [00:06:59] Right. [00:07:00] Are there? Well, I'm sure they're probably gay queer.
CA: [00:07:02] I don't know. I don't look at nudie magazine. Here we go.
AE: [00:07:06] So everyone knows what to get you for your birthday. Um, so I have like, um, a story. My, my aunt, uh, used to live in Nashville, Tennessee. We went out to a bar and we dared my mom to order a martini. And this is what she said and no, I mean, she's just like a sweet.
Lady. She's got a little bit of sass. The fact that she agreed to say this, so she orders her martini. She's like, hello, bartender. She's like, I'd like a martini, like a vodka martini. I don't want any of that pussy shit. I want it. Larry Flint filthy. She said that
CA: [00:07:42] Nancy, your mother said this, why
AE: [00:07:45] you should have seen the guy his face. He was like very much unsure of how to handle the situation. And then immediately, like she totally kept a straight face. And then like, as she turned away, there was like this biggest grin on her face. Never said that, [00:08:00] at least in my adult life at that point, I think I was like 24. Maybe we had a really fun night that night.
We went out. There's a, um, a bar, like a gay bar called the lipstick lounge. And they do karaoke and we sang karaoke and we just had like, you can smoke in bars there. Shout out yes, to Nashville they're there it's like the nineties. Yeah.
CA: [00:08:22] I can't believe that anyone still smokes in any restaurant. I remember that stuff growing up.
AE: [00:08:26] I know you're going to Chili's smoking or non-smoking. Yeah, I know. But, um, the next day is when I fainted at the gas station and cracked my head open.
CA: [00:08:34] I remember that.
AE: [00:08:36] Yeah, they get those staples in like rural Tennessee. Can't take me anywhere
CA: [00:08:38] Yep. Yep. You called me. Yeah. So I have a thing that I heard this week. I thought you would really enjoy.
Okay. So, um, I work with youth and foster care, which you know, and, um, I did the five love languages, quizzes quiz with one of my kids recently. Now there are all sorts of issues with like the five love languages. And it was [00:09:00] started by a Baptist preacher, I think in South Carolina or Georgia or someplace like that.
Yeah. So, um, but anyways, we did the five love languages and it just so happened. I was in a team meeting and we were discussing the five love languages. And at the end of the meeting, one of my, um, supervisors looked at all of us and said, my hope for you this week is that you experience your primary love language.
And I thought that was
AE: [00:09:25] so that's really fantastic.
CA: [00:09:28] I felt so seen.
AE: [00:09:30] I know I'm like, I don't know why that's making me feel emotional.
CA: [00:09:35] I think it's because living in a pandemic, my primary love language is touch. I live alone. My cats are cool, but they don't really satisfy that need. So I got a weighted blanket early on, which was really
nice.
AE: [00:09:50] Yeah. Amazon ran out of that. They're like, we'll get it while it's hot guys.
CA: [00:09:55] You touch
people who live alone. You need to feel cuddled. Here's a weighted blanket. [00:10:00] Right. They should have just sent it to all of us for free. And
I
AE: [00:10:02] think that's part of like the stimulus package for, uh, that, this next one.
CA: [00:10:07] That's exactly what this was intended for. So I just wanted to share with you because it brought me so much comfort.
AE: [00:10:12] I think that that is really nice understanding that obviously everybody needs different things. Everybody's at such a different place in their lives. Everybody's experiencing. Everything is different.
And yet the same in the fact that we're all feeling uncomfortable with the way that the world is right now. If you're not that's problematic. I think probably the reason why we're still in the state, but no, that's really nice to just say, because mine is mine. Mine is, um, personal time together. I would say an acts of service.
Like I love a good load the dishwasher. Whew. So what are we talking about today?
CA: [00:10:49] What do we got? We are going to keep things really light and fun today. Oh, good. And for me,
AE: [00:10:54] it's going to be really heavy. Yeah. Yes. We're going
CA: [00:10:57] to talk about cultural appropriation and social [00:11:00] work with developmental and social theories.
AE: [00:11:03] Let's dive on in.
CA: [00:11:04] We are diving. Okay. We are here. Splash, um, specifically, we're going to talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the chakras
AE: [00:11:15] Oh, okay. Intersectionality. Well I took an AP psychology class in high school. So if you have any questions, let me know.
CA: [00:11:24] I certainly will. I will be calling on you frequently throughout this.
I'm so, so glad to have you at this table. Thank you. Um, so I feel like I have to credit a few people because unfortunately I did not come up with this idea. Um, I heard a TikTok on this sometime in the past, like two weeks and I don't remember who actually posted it and I forgot to save it to my phone.
So if anyone knows the Tik talker who posted this thing, feel free to let them know and ask them to listen to our podcast. I also read several articles, one from like psychology today. [00:12:00] Um, a few articles about chakras in general, and then if you Google Maslow's hierarchy of needs and chakras, there are also like 2000 of my closest friends who have written articles about this too.
Yeah. So I am by no means the first I'm just the one telling you about it today. So let's start at the very beginning, a very good place to start with chakras. So the chakra system originated in India between 1500 and 500 BC. Um, the first known text, those written in is called Vetas. Okay. And chakras are thought of as like little spinning disks or wheels of energy that run up through your spine.
The health of your chakra is connected to your physical body, mind and emotional wellbeing. According to my good friend, Wikipedia,
the exact number of chakras differs between Indian religions and you know that there are just so many variations. Of belief. So Buddhist texts mentioned like five [00:13:00] Hindu texts have six to seven, and then there are other texts that think that there are hundreds or even thousands of these little energy orbs floating throughout your body.
Probably. Grounded in some way.
AE: [00:13:11] Sure. And acupuncture comes from that too. It's kind of like another way to do it.
CA: [00:13:15] Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. For the sake of today's conversation, we could have talked about five chakras, but we're actually going to talk about seven because I feel like that's the most commonly accepted.
Now I know that you have, you have some spiritual practices relating to feeling connected, but I'm going to tell you a little bit about the chakras, assuming that you know nothing, because I know that this is not your specialty. Psychology is
AE: [00:13:41] walk me through it girl.
CA: [00:13:42] All right. So at the very bottom, we have the root chakra, which is located at the base of the spine.
And this is what grounds you to the earth and connects you to your physical self is responsible for your sense of safety, security. It's basically life survival and safety. Keeping you [00:14:00] grounded keeping you grounded. And then we have the sacral chakra, which is just below your belly button. And it's often associated with sexuality and self worth, which I think is a beautiful marriage of two.
And I mean, I've read lots of books about the shockers before, but going back and rereading them. I thought it was really interesting that these are the two words that really stood out to me. No,
AE: [00:14:22] honestly, I really don't know a ton about the chakras specifically. I've always been around other people who, who know it.
And so I've just kind of gone with the flow. So I know probably the basics probably as much as the majority of people listen.
CA: [00:14:36] Oh, good. Well, in that case, I'm glad I get to tell you about them. Then we have the solar plexus chakra, which is in like the upper abdomen stomach area. And this is where you derive your personal power, your self-esteem confidence.
Um,
AE: [00:14:51] so when you were like lifting up your yeah, you're just letting your ribs kind of meet in that middle spot.
CA: [00:14:58] Exactly
Okay. Also, I think [00:15:00] it's important to note that we both have our hands like right over our chakras. Right. And as I'm going up,
AE: [00:15:04] I lifted on my shirt to show my belly
CA: [00:15:08] is the solar plexus, uh, upper area confidence.
Um, this is also where you derive your wisdom. So think of like your gut feelings. Okay. If your solar plexus chakra is open and, you know, functioning fully, which is the goal, um, then you have really good intuition and gut feelings. Yeah. Then you have your heart chakra, which is not directly above your heart, but like if your heart was right in front of your or spine, and this is like the deep bond with other people, compassion, self-love generosity, kindness.
Respect, um, and belonging.
AE: [00:15:45] Interesting because when I'm I'm stressed, I feel a really heavy tightening right here and kind of that, that area. That's where I manifest my stress.
CA: [00:15:55] That's one of the places I manifest stress too, that my neck and your neck too, [00:16:00] we're just going to give ourselves massages, sitting across the table
AE: [00:16:03] from each other.
So moving up, what would it be? So
CA: [00:16:06] this is the throat chakra. Yep, yep. Aptly named, and this is responsible for self-expression communication and truth. Um, which I think is why my throat like starts to ache sometimes because I don't always feel like I do a good job of communicating. It's something I've been working on during the pandemic.
I think it's
AE: [00:16:24] been, I think you communicate really well, especially like words of affirmation. You're really good about that. But having hard conversations I imagine is
CA: [00:16:32] probably harder for you.
Yeah. I definitely, um, I I'm practicing. Yeah. But, and with people I'm super comfortable with, I don't mind like, yeah.
You know, if you and I need to have a hard conversation, I feel like we can do that. There's already a level of trust, but other people not so much. So then we're going to move up to the third eye, which is like, yep. Just between your eyebrows and that's the center of your intuition, foresight, um, perception and this [00:17:00] director of site and everyday awareness of the world.
AE: [00:17:02] And that's a meditation in of itself is to focus on that
CA: [00:17:06] element. Right. You can actually do full meditations, just focusing on each of the different chakras. Oh, I love that. Oh, and just a second. Let me tell you the seventh chakra, and then I will tell you a quick meditation that I really liked to do. Oh, okay.
Okay. So the seventh chakra is at the top of your head and it's your crown chakra and this connects to your higher consciousness. Um, it's the center of trust, devotion, inspiration, harmony, compassion, and oneness.
AE: [00:17:32] Ooh. I love a good oneness.
CA: [00:17:34] I know me too. So do not listen to this recording while you are driving or operating heavy machinery.
AE: [00:17:41] Oh yeah. Forklift drivers listening to us right now.
CA: [00:17:45] But my, one of my favorite meditations is to sit and have like both feet on the floor and imagine roots going all the way to the center of the earth. Okay. And then you think about each chakra is like a flower and it's opening and you can control how much [00:18:00] it's opened or closed.
Okay. So by, you know, just focusing on each of the seven centers and opening them all up, then you just feel really good and connected. And you think about all the different words that are associated with each one. Okay. I like that. Yeah. It's fun. So those are our seven chakras. Let's talk about Maslow. Do you know much about Maslow from your AP psych?
AE: [00:18:23] What I remember is that you meet, you have to meet them in order, right. And it's basically the staircase to happiness, essentially.
CA: [00:18:31] Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um, often thought of as a pyramid too, I've seen it as a staircase, you know, either one works. So Abraham Maslow,
AE: [00:18:39] Abraham Lincoln,
CA: [00:18:40] Abraham Lincoln Maslow wrote a paper called a theory of human motivation in 1943.
In that paper, he wrote about things that like motivate and drive humans. This is where Maslow's hierarchy of needs comes from. Except what's really interesting about this is that it wasn't based in scientific principles or [00:19:00] rigorous like research instead, he was just kind of hypothesizing that maybe this is how things work.
And he's not wrong. Right.
AE: [00:19:09] He's like, it looks good to me.
CA: [00:19:10] Yeah. I mean, this makes sense logically if you think about, and he was the first one to put it on paper, who was a white man, so, right.
AE: [00:19:18] Good. What good luck that would be for him. He's like, well, nobody's said it yet, so I'm going to write it down.
Give me all the money,
CA: [00:19:25] uh, again, back to cultural appropriation, which we'll get to in just a moment.
Can't wait. Well, as hierarchy of needs, there are five rather than seven. Okay. His first four are in line with the first four chakras and the fifth is like five, six and seven all pushed together. Gotcha. So he said that your most basic need is your physiological needs. You need water, air, sleep food. Et cetera, you need to feel safe, which is associated with the root chakra.
Your second need is [00:20:00] safety and security. So safety of your body, which again, remember that sacral chakra was associated with sex and an intimacy sort of the heart is also associated with intimacy and it makes sense, but it's safety and security of the body resources, family, health, employment, property, et cetera.
So it's all about.
AE: [00:20:20] So the first one is basic needs, right? Gotta eat, gotta sleep. As long as you're living and breathing and getting medical attention, you've met the first one physical safety.
The second one is.
CA: [00:20:31] Like felt safety insecurity and then moving up. So he calls this love and belongingness is the third one.
Um, and it's actually, we're going to think about it as the third chakra, even though they all start to kind of melt together at this point. Right. Um, so belongingness within a family friendship against sexual intimacy here pulled from the chakras level four is he calls it esteem. And it's your [00:21:00] confidence, achievement, and respect.
And it's associated with your. Heart chakra.
AE: [00:21:05] So the third would be feeling safe, like almost like a community. And then, and then now we're going outside the community to feel respected
by others. Yes. Got it.
CA: [00:21:16] Yeah. And then the very highest one is, um, self-actualization so this is like higher level thinking.
Creativity, problem solving academic stuff happens at the very top. So you've got to, you know, have food and water before you can start thinking about school. Sure. Um, you have to feel like you belong within a family or social support before you feel like you can be accepted by broader society.
AE: [00:21:44] Is it, is it intentionally like, uh, specifically academic or can it be like psych, like, um, cause there's a, a philosopher called Csikszentmihalyi and he has the concept of flow, which is like you're so into what you're doing, that it [00:22:00] becomes.
Like an out-of-body experience and you're going through the motions. It's kind of meditative in and of itself.
CA: [00:22:05] Yeah. That would definitely be associated with the top level of self-actualization. Okay. Yeah. So good plug. Excellent. You're just making all sorts of connections today. Helpful. You are see that AP psychology class.
Did you good? So all these things like really seem to build on each other. If you don't feel safe with your root chakra or, you know, your physical needs being met, then you can't learn about your sense of self and you can't get to like the third level of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. There are some similarities here.
Also, if you look in a textbook at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the very bottom need of safety is always red. The top need is always either purple or blue. And they go up in like a rainbow pattern, just like the chakras do. Right. So they weren't very subtle about any of this.
AE: [00:22:54] I was like, this is definitely an independent thought one from [00:23:00] eastern traditions.
So when S when people see, uh, like the color of your aura, for example, is that associated with the chakra?
That's a great
CA: [00:23:08] question. I'm going to say yes, but I did not actually do research about that. So
AE: [00:23:13] it is
CA: [00:23:14] absolutely. It is. What we don't know is if Maslow knew about chakras when he wrote his paper,
AE: [00:23:20] 1000% he
CA: [00:23:22] knew he most likely knew.
However, remember this is a 1943 and as we know, Al Gore invented the internet, but that did not happen in 1943. Uh, so it's possible.
AE: [00:23:36] He, Oh my God, there were totally books about it.
CA: [00:23:39] And that's what we're getting to. There's a concept of modern Western chakra systems that arose from a few people. Gotcha.
Okay. Including sir, John Woodruff in 1919, he wrote a book called the serpent power, which I need to read it is, you know, we're going to order it. And Charles led better wrote a book called the chakras in [00:24:00] 1927. So these are both white men in, you know, Western Europe.
AE: [00:24:04] This is like the equivalent of some Christian communities feeling really uncomfortable with practicing yoga.
So they come up with their own prayer pose equivalent to kind of whitewash the whole thing and make it that's exactly what this is.
CA: [00:24:17] Cultural appropriation and it's. Worst and best, worst, just worst. I think that to take away religion from it and just use it for your own gain is it's unhealthy. Like you're, you're appropriating another culture's religious practice, but there there's no concrete evidence that Maslow knew my guess is he probably did.
Now whether he subconsciously like, knew this thing about the chakras and then moved it into his own writing or did it consciously, we just
AE: [00:24:52] don't. No, we just, we just have know, honey, we just don't know. I mean, he totally did, but with there's no way
CA: [00:24:58] to pay. Exactly, exactly. And [00:25:00] he's long dead. So. There goes that option.
So before I wrap up here, I do want to throw in some of my own thoughts and I want to make the connection to trauma because that's what I do. I'm a social worker who has an interest in mental health and healing systems and communities. So one of the most powerful things that I've experienced when working with Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I was working at a school and working to develop a multi-tiered system of support for children with disabilities.
Okay. So multi-tiered thank, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs. How can we support kids to get them wherever they need to be? A brilliant coworker of mine showed me two triangles that both had Maslow's hierarchy of needs written down in them. One was like the normal triangle that we all know where safety's at the bottom and it's really big.
And then it gets smaller as you get to the top with self-actualization. The other triangle was inverted and. What you upside down the upside down the largest section was at the top. The self-actualization was really big. And then safety was really small. [00:26:00] Now she had not created these triangles and I have no idea where she got them.
If I do, I tried to Google it. If I see them again, I will add the citation. What we realized throughout the course of our discussion is that where she pointed out that if we think about them, not in terms of like most important to least important, but rather where we spent the bulk of our energy, then really we need to be looking at the inverted triangle.
Like if you have all of your basic needs met, if you know where you're going to be sleeping at night, you know that you have food in the fridge. You spend very little time thinking about safety. Um, even though it's important, you spend very little time there, which is the inverted triangle with time. Yep.
So people who have their needs met with little to no trauma spend the majority of their time in the higher level thinking, um, they're able to focus on school, do all their work, have big an abstract thoughts. And it's because everything that came before that was met for them.
AE: [00:26:57] So this would be more of like a, I mean, I don't [00:27:00] want to say privileged, but, uh, more, um,
CA: [00:27:02] I think privileged is actually a pretty good term.
Like people who haven't experienced trauma are privileged in a lot of ways. True. Um, people who have all their needs met, who've never experienced homelessness or poverty who have never been witnessed to domestic violence or experienced domestic violence. Like those are all privileges. So I think that that's a great word for it.
What we're realizing in classrooms and with kids, you know, in foster care is they're not able to get to where they should be spending the majority of their time. And it's because they're still focused on this felt safety or physical safety. So that's, yeah, this is where I see a true alignment with the chakras and where I think Maslow really did a disservice to the hierarchy of needs, understanding the chakras.
It means that you understand that they're all valuable and all important, and they all have to be aligned in open. What Western society fails to understand is without meeting the most basic [00:28:00] needs of people, they can't get to the higher level. They all need to be met. We think, you know, you meet one, check it off and you're good.
Whereas the chakras you're constantly thinking about all of them. Absolutely. And in fact,
AE: [00:28:12] it's like a conscious. Effort effort to do so because it's it's, um, self
CA: [00:28:18] care. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And even, you know, the act of self-care has its own privileges, but in Eastern ideology and theories, they really put forth effort into understanding having all of those needs met at all times.
Whereas, you know, here in the us, um, if you have a roof over your head, then we can just jump straight up to the highest level in school and you're expected to be able to perform well. Sure.
AE: [00:28:47] Yeah. Oh gosh. So problematic. I know the system is so broken and that, that goes back to also people assuming that, I mean, government assistance is always a huge conversation about, you [00:29:00] know, needs being met.
And so then now everything is. Right. Good and dandy. And, and, and that's just obviously not true.
CA: [00:29:07] Exactly. We're expecting people, you know, to have a house and get a job. But if that housing is unstable, if you know, they still don't have enough money for food, if they still have medical bills and they're working three jobs
AE: [00:29:22] well, and something other like something I think about a lot is that, um, uh, like food stamps, for example, don't cover basic like Advil, right?
Pet food. Yeah. I mean, basic things that we need.
CA: [00:29:35] Right. Yeah. I agree with you. And I think that if we were to do a better job of meeting people's needs, then we can allow them to get to the place where they're actually able to thrive and contribute to society. Because I believe that people genuinely want to help other people, or so
AE: [00:29:53] we have the regular hierarchy of needs, which would be assumed for a non privileged person.
Right. It's [00:30:00] then inverted. Given much more opportunity to spend focus on the enlightenment portion for people. Right.
CA: [00:30:08] Whereas the chakras is say that each one is equally important and we need to constantly circle back to all of them. Right. So I don't know that I did a great job of explaining all that.
AE: [00:30:18] Right. You did. I mean, this is, this is really, uh, I think an important conversation because, um, you're looking at it obviously. I mean, we use the word lenses all the time, but you're looking at it through these two different lenses or even three, considering the timeline here. I mean, there's, everybody's going to have their own experiences and, um, their own relationship with developing and meeting their needs and right.
You know, but I think it's also important to know that, um, The, uh, I guess, evolving to the next level. So to speak for these needs is always being helped by someone else.
CA: [00:30:54] No, you're absolutely right. I have one last sentence and then we can transition [00:31:00] over. But my very it's probably my favorite sentence from my whole thing is the conclusion here is that chakras did at first and better and Maslow is the reader's digest version.
AE: [00:31:13] I was so
CA: [00:31:14] proud of that one. I love that. Thank you.
AE: [00:31:16] Yeah. He's um, I mean, I think it's really hard for people to understand and experience that there's other ways to look at things, right. Um, if they haven't been supported in looking for solutions or viewpoints outside of their own kind of realm. Yeah.
Agreed. All right. You ready for mine? I am. Let's get to it. All right. So this week for me, we're going to be talking about history and kind of a different way. We're going to be talking about two separate topics. That of course intersect.
CA: [00:31:47] Are you sampling my idea of intersecting and intersect,
AE: [00:31:50] right. So I'm going to be talking about two preventable tragedies.
Ooh intrigue. So the first one we're going to be discussing is the [00:32:00] Chualar bus crash of 1963. And I forgive me if I mispronounced that I looked it up twice and they said two different
CA: [00:32:06] things. I never heard of that. So, yes.
AE: [00:32:08] So, and, and part of what drew me to it was because I kept finding topics that part of history is as we discussed on the first episode, we only know the surface level stuff.
There's all kinds of things. Everything we do every day contributes to history, right? So let's set the scene. On September 17th, 1963, a bus of 58 men traveled from the Earl Myers company labor camp and were returning from a day shift in Salina Valley. Harvesting celery and other vegetables. Oh, okay. So 53 of these men were a part of something called the program, which basically contracted workers for the season, from Mexico.
This program brought in labor from Mexico to assist the crop harvest. Okay. Okay. So the [00:33:00] passengers were riding on basically two long benches, um, which were boards kind of tacked on to, to the benches behind a truck. Okay. So this, the, the benches kind of ran the whole length of the vehicle and the vehicle was a flatbed truck with a canopy over it, like a covered wagons actually.
Exactly. Because these vehicles were usually purchased as regular trucks and converted. Some of them were altered in some ways that were not so safe. Okay.
CA: [00:33:28] Right. You dont say, traveling
AE: [00:33:30] and covered wagons. Bob can can fix that up for you. Real good.
CA: [00:33:34] What year was this? I'm so sorry. This is 1963,
AE: [00:33:39] 1963. Okay. I have to stop singing if I start singing.
Nobody wants to hear that. Uh, for example, um, it was really unsafe because it was impossible for the people in the back of the truck to communicate with anybody driving, because it was completely separated. They were covered noise. Couldn't get to the front, anything like that. So obviously it was, so
CA: [00:33:59] it's [00:34:00] not like riding in the back of a pickup truck where you just bang on the window to get the
AE: [00:34:03] garbage.
It wasn't like the eight year old. Um,
CA: [00:34:05] I mean, they're my whole growing up experience in a small town.
AE: [00:34:09] Perfect. So it was, it was different. Also. There were, um, you know, uh, a lot of men here that was 58 riding in this one particular vehicle. Okay. So it's important to note that it was, um, so the, the way that they were coming home from work was really typical at the time.
Okay. So this transportation and the vehicle kind of layout was people were using it all, all over the place. Some of the workers were even sitting on the floor of the bus alongside the really long knives that they use to harvest the food. So safety was the top priority. Exactly. Regulations were so-so.
So the driver, his name was Francisco Espenosa and they called him poncho, which is how I'm going to refer to him. Okay. Uh, throughout the, [00:35:00] the story, but at 4:20 PM. So four 20, you know, what's up poncho was traveling East on a private road driving this vehicle. Okay. So it was a private road, uh, which, and they
CA: [00:35:12] were traveling East.
Uh,
AE: [00:35:15] yeah. Um, so this road intersected with a train track. Okay. So the intersection, the intersection was on private property. And so it wasn't required to have any type of hazard, um, notice any of the, yeah, no signs, something
CA: [00:35:35] see red and white drop thingy,
AE: [00:35:38] which I've gotten stuck between. And in downtown Greensboro, you do, you know, there's a road behind an apartment complex that you can turn right onto Elm.
And then immediately the tra the railroad tracks. So nobody was coming. So I went not seeing that there was an actual, and this man looked at me and he was like, you better [00:36:00] with his eyes. He was like run. So anyway, I'm still here today. Um, So, um, there was nothing marking, anything also just it's important to note that there was no trees or anything blocking, you could totally see that it was a train track.
You could see whether a train was coming. Nothing was blocking the view of the driver at the time, going down this long road. Okay. So the freight train was from South Pacific railroad and it was pulling 71 cars, uh, carrying sugar, beets, sugar, beets, beets, and dates. Yeah. So the train is able to see that this car is coming and that they're going to intersect with each other.
So the,
CA: [00:36:44] but the car was not able to see that
AE: [00:36:47] the car was apparently unable to see it at this time. Okay. So the driver of the, the captain of the train. Pulled on the emergency, [00:37:00] um, emergency brake. So not realizing that the train was approaching the truck driver moved slowly across the tracks as if you would, normally, when you have your 58 or your friends in the back, you don't just drive over a train track.
Right. Really fast. So, but he went really slow over the train tracks, the train continued, um, to, to drive and they, uh, collided. Okay. Okay. So the train continued to travel for like 3000 feet because, you know, I mean, it's hard to stop a train. We've all heard that, right? Yeah. I mean there's only a possible, okay.
So 32 people died during this tragic accident.
CA: [00:37:43] So a little over half. Yeah.
AE: [00:37:45] Yeah. And it's considered to be the deadliest automobile accident in us history. Oh yeah. RIP I know 15 ambulance has carried the bodies to the hospital and one victim was cut in half by the wheels, the train. Oh my God. Yeah. [00:38:00] No one in the train was
CA: [00:38:01] injured.
Wow. I really want to make a buddy thread. Good joke. I feel kind of inappropriate.
AE: [00:38:06] Yes. Actually, I hadn't thought about that. Yep. So poncho was arrested and charged with 32 counts on a felony manslaughter charge,
CA: [00:38:16] poor poncho. I mean, poncho should have been looking.
AE: [00:38:19] No. And that's what we'll talk about here in a minute.
Is that like, I mean, if it's a, wide, it's like Dixie chicks wide open spaces, how are you not seeing a train coming, a train coming, the train saw you in your car and like, you know, maybe, I mean, it was the end of the day. It was hashtag four 20. So who knows?
CA: [00:38:38] But I mean, like I've been around trains and. You've watched movies with trains and we're stuck on the train track.
You know, when the train is approaching a), you can hear the damn train and b), if they've put it on that emergency brake, there's that high pitch squealing sound. And like, you have to be really oblivious yeah. To not [00:39:00] see a train coming right at you
AE: [00:39:01] It was hard to find information about him specifically. Um, so I don't know if he was suffering from any mental illness, if this was our hearing loss, maybe hearing loss it's unclear.
Um, but regardless, I mean, he was charged with 32 counts. I mean, 32 counts of murder essentially, or no, it was manslaughter. Wow. Um, but it was later, um, reduced to a misdemeanor charge. Right. So he claimed that he didn't hear or see the train approaching and that it was a total accident. Uh, and he eventually was acquitted of the charges.
CA: [00:39:36] Really? That's surprising.
AE: [00:39:38] He was, he w he immediately fled California back to Mexico when he was a
CA: [00:39:43] aquitted. I don't
blame him for that.
AE: [00:39:46] So some might consider that, you know, a sign of guilt suspect, right. That he's fleeing the scene. But I mean, I would go home to be with my family if something really tragic like that, because these are his friends.
CA: [00:39:57] Yeah. I mean, I can't imagine a [00:40:00] world where without severe mental illness, you would want to intentionally kill anybody, especially that many people in the back of your car. Sure. Like I have to believe that that was an accident or he had severe mental illness. Right.
AE: [00:40:14] And I would think that if he did have severe mental illness, we would, it wouldn't be much more documented probably.
So this guy is essentially living in his own hell because the guilt is probably overwhelming. Right? Gosh. So he's had a couple of really bad days. Um, and, um, later, uh, his sister reported that he was killed in Mexico by relatives of the crash victims, poncho
CA: [00:40:41] poor poncho. I know, I'm just thinking about the death penalty, which is essentially, I mean, without being killed in our prison system, I mean, people vigilantes took it into their own hands.
Yeah.
AE: [00:40:56] Um, which would also be possible in prison as well.
[00:41:00] CA: [00:41:00] Oh, absolutely. But I'm just thinking, like, from everything I've ever read about the death penalty and people, you know, wanting vengeance for someone who killed their loved one, it never actually brings you peace. True. Like, I mean, you might feel better momentarily, but.
Then you've just killed somebody. Like, I don't
AE: [00:41:18] know how, yeah. I don't know how those people were, uh, apprehended if they were in New Mexico. So I, you know, yeah. That's a really good point. Yeah. Uh, I think it's much more natural for men to be vindictive and to kind of go after the revenge factor. I don't know, but I feel, I feel really, it's a really tragic story because a lot of people lost their lives.
And basically like when I came away from this story, was that the private property. I mean, obviously this was in another time, but I mean that, this is why train tracks are marked as they were, I have a family member who died because he was hit by a train. Really? I didn't know that. Yeah. So this was my, [00:42:00] um, my mom's grandfather.
Wow. Yeah. So we've, I've gotten different stories about that. I don't know if she'll want me to talk about it here, but I mean, back in the day, you know, you don't. Uh, there, there wasn't any regulations, as far as, you know, some people tried to beat the train. That was a big thing.
CA: [00:42:17] I feel like kids still do that, especially, you know, really young people ass hole kids.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, I think there's also the sense of being Superman and like nothing will actually kill you so I can do whatever I want.
AE: [00:42:32] Oh yeah. Um,
and I think that like, um, it's interesting to note what is now the younger generation they're genic. No, they're gen Z. Thank you. So those are, those are the kids now they're the ones learning to drive, right.
Because millennials we've aged
CA: [00:42:48] out. Yeah. And we know that people born in the year, 2000 are now 21, so we know all kinds of stuff. We, we know shit.
AE: [00:42:57] Um, so yeah, there's just a whole [00:43:00] nother. Group of people coming up. Yeah. Um, all right. So my next story is going to be about the deaths at Victoria Hall.
CA: [00:43:07] A two for one, I love this
AE: [00:43:09] I I know.
So the other one was a little bit shorter, so I wanted to cover, um, but this is again, a completely preventable. It should have never happened.
CA: [00:43:18] Okay. Are we going to come back to at some point, um, any potential changes in legislation or whatever that came out of this? Well, they're
AE: [00:43:27] both different. Um, they're both different topics, but as far as the railroad situation, we know now that, um, well, first of all, the program that the, those, um, The majority of the individuals who were participating in no longer exists, they felt that it was taking advantage of migrant workers.
And then it was taking away jobs from us employees.
CA: [00:43:51] So is, which is a whole other topic. And we'll come back to that. Yeah.
AE: [00:43:55] That was the literal quote that I read though. Um, and then, um, I know that [00:44:00] now there's definitely much more, this is at a time where kids were driving the backs of trucks. Yeah. Safety now becoming important.
And there were a ton of, of incidences over like a 30 to 40 year period of people being hit by trains. So I know now that the railroad system is much more direct, there's a lot of lines that don't exist anymore that are through high traffic areas that are just not needed because they weren't routed. So the deaths at Victoria Hall.
Okay. So Victoria Hall was a really grand and impressive concert hall that stood in. Sunderland England and at the corner of towered road and Laura street. Oh,
CA: [00:44:45] it's such pretty names.
AE: [00:44:46] I know. So we can visit it. So the concert hall was built in 1872 and was erected to resemble the size and the style of the crystal palace, which was like a super [00:45:00] grand architectural achievement in London at the time.
So the building was made of brick and it was built in like the Gothic revival style. So it had a favorite style, really cool, but it was kind of too modern for the times, or I guess to retro modern, it had the high peaks and the sharp angles and people in the community were kind of like, Ooh, this is kind of ugly, but like, I guess we'll go with it.
CA: [00:45:26] I mean, they said the same thing about the Eiffel tower.
AE: [00:45:28] Well, that's true. I know somebody is married to the Eiffel tower. Um, so the building was built by a Quaker minister and his name was Edward, uh, Backhouse, Backhouse hay. And it costs like the equivalent of 200, $230,000 today, which is, I feel like
CA: [00:45:48] that's, pricing's really low, super low.
I mean, I'm assuming this is, you know,
AE: [00:45:54] might be part of the problem. Yeah. Um, so there's speculation that the money, uh, [00:46:00] started to kind of run out towards the end because there's like a lot of structural differences. There's obvious difference between the North and the South wall as far as Heights go. So like, there's definitely some, some major issues contextural, uh, flaw discrepancies.
So inside the hall, the building could seat up to 3000 people. So naturally it hosted public meetings and entertainment. What we can assume is that because the owner of the building was a Quaker minister, That the entertainment would be really wholesome. So I saw that definitely a couple places where it was like, okay, so we're going to have this production hall, but like not, everybody's going to be invited to come perform here.
So your Buddhist screen band, when my death metal band death metal would not have been invited. Yeah. Dharma is not invited. Darren was not invited and also magic. Like the musical would not have made it. So the venue was very wholesome and honestly like pretty forgettable. And, uh, an article I read said, quote, the [00:47:00] Victoria Hall would probably have maintained merely an example of Victorian architecture and forgotten by history.
Had it not been for the tragic incident that occurred in 1883. I agree. So let's set the scene. Do you have anywhere any idea about where this is going.
CA: [00:47:18] It's probably going to continue to take place in London, but that's all I've got.
AE: [00:47:22] Well it's yeah. It's outside of London. It's in England.
CA: [00:47:25] I'm assuming that it's maybe similar to like the shirt coat factory Shirtwaist factory fire.
Yeah. And was that in Chicago?
No. New York. New York? Um, luckily, no. Okay.
AE: [00:47:39] But also we'll see. Okay. Might be worse. On Saturday, June 16th, 1883, Victoria Hall served as the venue for a performance, uh, put on by a traveling act from the local aquarium. They were called the Fay's and I say that in like a Southern accent.
Cause that's how I feel like it should be pronounced, but can you spell that for me?
CA: [00:47:59] F a Y [00:48:00] S. Okay. I was wondering if it was like Faes and fairy, like Fae. Nope, Nope. Fays,
AE: [00:48:06] but basically it was like, basically like a magician.
CA: [00:48:09] Okay. Okay. So a magician aquarium show.
AE: [00:48:12] So I think he worked at the aquarium. They were, that was like his primary employer.
And then the aquarium would be like, look, bill, you got a gig over at the, uh, you know, go pull a mermaid out of a hat kinda kind of thing. Um, the show was advertised to the community pretty exclusively to children. So they were really marketing towards the children, which is interesting because on the flyer it says, quote, conjuring, talking, wax, worths, live marionettes, and the great ghost illusion
CA: [00:48:42] just me.
Or did you just put a whole bunch of words together that don't make sense?
AE: [00:48:46] I know those are completely different thoughts. I mean, it's the poster. So I mean, all of those seem pretty terrifying.
CA: [00:48:53] I, can you read that to me? Just one more time?
AE: [00:48:56] Conjuring talking wax worths, [00:49:00] which is like wax people. Oh, wow.
CA: [00:49:01] Wax fingurines.
That is the most terrifying thing I can think of. I'm going to have nightmares
AE: [00:49:07] the 1880s. So like, this is like the epitome of, of entertainment
CA: [00:49:12] been to a wax museum. I can think of nothing more terrifying than any of them ever talking to you
AE: [00:49:18] live marionettes. Uh, my sister's a librarian, so I have some experience with puppets, which I think are, are, but marionettes are like, they got the string is kind of like bye, bye, bye little N'sync happening,
CA: [00:49:34] I'm just thinking like the lie or the talking wax people.
And then my brain went to live marionettes, like living marionettes, like Pinocchio after he's a real boy and that's terrifying too. So I don't like anything about it. It's fun.
AE: [00:49:49] And also like the great ghost illusion.
CA: [00:49:51] Yeah. I am liking this less and less as you continue to go on.
AE: [00:49:56] They promise that quote, every child entering the room will [00:50:00] stand a chance of receiving a handsome, present book toys, or
CA: [00:50:05] a Poltergeist or a Poltergeist.
Um, and therefore needing an exorcism at some point in their life.
AE: [00:50:11] Yeah. Can you, um, the tickets were sold for a penny each.
CA: [00:50:15] That's how you know, it's bad, right?
AE: [00:50:17] That's some Groupon shit right there. Every child would be entered into a raffle with their tickets purchase. Okay.
CA: [00:50:25] So you pay a penny, you can
AE: [00:50:27] take it.
Can you imagine, like living in this really small town, nothing ever really comes to happen. You have this like really big new art center and then your dream comes true and this like magician is going to come and like. Change your life and you get into a raffle. It sounds really exciting. And like the anticipation must've been like building.
So at 3:00 PM on the afternoon, Victoria Hall packed in about 2000 children. It's a lot of kids. Yeah. This was like a big deal. Also. Like this is when the, the time you could like send your child [00:51:00] to the theater, like here's a penny, go, go to the, you know, your 13 year old, sister's going to look after you.
Right,
CA: [00:51:07] right. Don't fall in love with any of the performers. Sorry. I'm back. Um, Oh gosh, tipping the velvet where she like walks into a theater and immediately falls in love with a
AE: [00:51:18] performer as, I mean, there's probably some, you know, fantasies happening, but not for long, which is what we'll get to. Okay. So the performance kind of goes on without a hitch.
Um, everybody's kind of having a really good time. Uh, the performance ends great. Everybody did a great job. So after the performance ended, they announced the children will receive raffle tickets. Like they'll basically pull their raffle number and that would be happening in a certain section.
Simultaneously prizes would be, uh, being given out at the front of the stage. Right. Okay. So, and we know what kids do, uh, children on the balcony because it was a two level [00:52:00] kind of amphitheater situation. Okay. Children on the second floor became anxious that they would not receive prizes because they had, you know, because they weren't because they were the cheap,
CA: [00:52:09] cheap, cheap seats, cheap sheets.
AE: [00:52:11] So they began to make their way down the staircase in a hurry, trying to get these prizes. Okay. So at the foot of the stairs, coming down from the second level was a door that led to the bottom bottom floor. Okay. That particular door opened inward. Okay. Do we know now? That is
CA: [00:52:29] not good. Is a huge, no, that's a
AE: [00:52:31] problem.
So it was also bolted by the staff to only allow 20 inches of space to open. Why? So the terrible design meant that only one child could exit at a time. So it was intended for a single file approach. Assuming that there was
CA: [00:52:52] now I see where this is going. Yes.
AE: [00:52:55] And I don't know if this was specifically done for this event or if it was happening all the [00:53:00] time, but it of course was happening during this event.
Right. So a few children who got there first, what you were able to get through the gap in the door. However, at some point there was a flood of children that congestion kind of grew leaving a jam in the front and children kind of started pushing and things started kind of going awry as of there.
CA: [00:53:22] Yeah.
Cause kids have no chill.
AE: [00:53:24] Right. And because like the children in the back, like nobody was supervising them. Like, they just kind of became pushing, cause you don't understand what's going on at the front of the crowd. And you're like, Hey, what's going on? Like, why can't I get through
CA: [00:53:36] like adults in a traffic jam?
Exactly.
AE: [00:53:38] So the children in the back had no idea what was happening in the front. The caretaker of the building, his name was Franklin Graham. He realized that something was happening and he ran up to the other side of the balcony to guide the children down that way. So he was like, huh, we got that happening.
Yeah. Got to fix it at the same time, the parents of the children started to realize that something was [00:54:00] wrong and they tried to pull the children through the door one by one.
CA: [00:54:04] That also sounds like not a great solution,
AE: [00:54:06] basically. It's chaos at this point.
CA: [00:54:08] So cause you got kids wanting to exit and
AE: [00:54:11] then they're
CA: [00:54:11] crying and they're packed.
They can't get out. And then parents start pulling, you've got dislocated arms at that point. Right?
AE: [00:54:19] Okay. So tragically, the children who were trapped at the front. We're basically suffocated by the pressure of those behind them. And reports concluded that the area at the front of the door, the body's reached 20 deep high in some areas. What?
Yes. So in total, 183 children suffocated to death, um, I know two of the youngest victims were three years old and the oldest victim was 14 years old
CA: [00:54:50] You did not adequately prepare me for this. I, uh, What I
AE: [00:54:56] know in my listening to it's really tragic. So [00:55:00] aftermath of this is of course that emergency exits kind of came to be exits were required to then be pushed out.
And the most positive thing that came from this as the invention of the push bar. Oh, look, schools now have the push bar where in an alarm will sound, we'll have to turn the knob of the door in order to open it. You can touch the door at any point along that bar and kind of push the door open that way, the person who invented this machine, his name was Robert Alexander Briggs, and he would have been 15 years old at the time of the Victoria Hall stampede.
His patent was approved in 1891, almost 20 years after the incident. Can you imagine the people who performed that day? I can't. They're just like having a really good show. Like they can't work again. Nobody's ever going to let their kids go to that show.
CA: [00:55:49] I think I found the intersectionality in your story.
And that is that people who may not have been responsible other than maybe marginally are now [00:56:00] going to live with trauma for the rest of their life.
AE: [00:56:02] And that's why they need people like you to assist them in navigating life after witnessing something, you know, so horribly,
CA: [00:56:09] thank you, God, I'm not a therapist.
I don't even know how to broach some of that with people. Um, yeah, that's what, no, I can't even imagine standing up on that stage and being aware or not of what's going on and suddenly, you know, so when you were prefacing the story about being the Victoria theater stampede, my brain was like, Oh cool.
Wildebeasts London not children stampeding each other?
AE: [00:56:39] Which can you imagine the artists performing at the time their career is essentially over.
CA: [00:56:48] It can't work again. They're never going to be able to work again.
AE: [00:56:51] There's no way a good English mother is going to send their kid to go see, you know, the Fay's.
CA: [00:56:59] Well, it's [00:57:00] interesting because, you know, in the U S we have, uh, stranger danger, like, which happened in the fifties and sixties, sixties, and seventies, there were parents are all of a sudden like, Hmm, we need to start teaching our kids. No, it was later than that. It was like the eighties and nineties,
AE: [00:57:16] a lot of serial killers in the eighties, seventies and
CA: [00:57:19] eighties.
So I redact my previous statement and would like to move forward with, there was stranger danger, and everyone just kind of assumed that someone was going to kidnap their kids. Yeah. And I'm imagining a similar mindset. In London after this of, I can't send my kid anywhere. They're not safe. Even at the theater.
Yeah. And what a terrifying thought as a parent to send them to a place that's supposed to be super safe. I mean, they're going to watch a magic show to watch a
AE: [00:57:47] magic show. Yeah.
CA: [00:57:48] I'm thinking a mermaid was coming out of a hat and they want to go get a prize and
AE: [00:57:53] why. Wow. And like the guilt of the performers having just like being like everybody gets a prize.
Isn't that [00:58:00] funnest you've ever heard?
CA: [00:58:01] I mean, that's so much fun. I won a prize. I would have been at the front of that queue.
AE: [00:58:06] So the venue, it was basically two thirds full wow. At the time. So, I mean, granted, it's not like, you know, uh, I mean, it was a big performance that the venue had had handled at the time.
Right. So, yeah, pretty much kind of ruined the, um, the whole, the venue, the venues. They have a couple of bad Yelp reviews after that. I
CA: [00:58:31] can imagine. I mean, even in retrospect, I go leave them a bad Yelp review because clearly, I mean, they were obviously thinking through, we don't want all these kids coming down the stairs.
I imagine the teacher having helped design the store of, we need to create order. Um, I've worked in schools. Like I know how teachers. Want to have order and you don't ever expect to have the worst case scenario, right? Um, no one plans for that. Nobody plans for that. [00:59:00] All right. So you dropped a major bomb on all of us with metaphorical bomb, not literal bomb because now we know that stampedes are not just wildebeasts and metaphorical they're real.
And people do accidentally get killed on train tracks, which are two really heavy topics. Oh yeah. So in thinking about how are our two. Topics intersect this week. I think what's really interesting is that both of yours could have potential policy changes and outcomes that help improve safety. Right. So safely preventable.
Exactly. So safety being the most basic level of human need. You're now by having new systems in place, allowing us to elevate our thinking, to be able to meet those needs and then move up. Right. So to make positive changes. Exactly. Yeah. How it relates to chakras. I [01:00:00] still have no idea, but I think that there's definitely a connection to Maslow.
AE: [01:00:05] Maybe it comes about where that I think that we need to be consistently evaluating the way that things are done and kind of checking in and saying, what can be better? What do I need to focus on?
CA: [01:00:20] That's a great point. And it's just like, I mean, looking at your two examples from a very micro perspective of what could have been done in this situation with these people that would have, you know, helped them, or even saved them to society.
So looking at people experiencing homelessness and poverty, how do we meet their most basic needs? Um, so that we're able to, to move up from there.
AE: [01:00:46] Yeah, definitely safety. Yeah. Basic that basic, um, lower or upper Mark of, of feeling safe and secure. Right. And
CA: [01:00:55] thinking about the Victoria theater where obviously thought went into, you [01:01:00] know, uh, we need to make sure kids come out one at a time so that they don't crowd the stage.
Like there was higher level thinking in that they just weren't thinking about the most basic needs. And I think that that's something that academics can do frequently is start thinking about, you know, Upper level, what's the big need here. Right. You know, we need to make sure that we can control X, Y, and Z without really thinking about the implications for people who don't have a met.
AE: [01:01:27] Sure. And I can also wildly speculate and I, and I, I'm not sure about this, but the, we don't know the status of the children on the second level. That's true too. We don't know about how they were viewed by the community and whether there was an assumption what, you know, that they needed to control them in some way or whatever.
CA: [01:01:45] That's a really great point. Yeah, absolutely. Because I assume if the theater wasn't completely full, then there were probably still spaces downstairs. So how did they decide who was upstairs and who was downstairs?
AE: [01:01:57] Very classes to situation.
CA: [01:01:59] That would be [01:02:00] my guess. Um, and we're looking at having people's needs met.
Who's most likely to have their needs met, but people on the ground floor who already, you know, don't have to worry about their safety
AE: [01:02:11] or automatically upfront when the presses are given out and. You know, maybe, maybe it's a good representation that the children upstairs were so like, excited and really, really needed that affirmation of even being able to be present at this event.
Might've been a huge deal for them. No, absolutely speculating. Of course. However, I
CA: [01:02:33] mean, but I, I don't think you're wrong based on how I see people being treated today. Like that would make so much sense to me just in terms of how we view income disparities and how we treat children. So even thinking about children and like title one schools who don't have their basic needs met and can't afford, you know, paper and pencils and whatnot, the school isn't going to be given much more money to have those [01:03:00] needs met.
They're still expected to make due on the same thing that every other school is expected to make due on. Sure. And when we look at kids and the upper floor versus the ground level, their needs are different. Okay. So to bring us up a little bit, I really, I have a pamphlet here that I found while I was cleaning my room the other day, because I keep everything.
And I, so this also intersects with both of our topics and that, um, someone was trying to be preventative, preventative in their, um, and meeting people's needs and making sure that, you know, no one is going to get hurt while also doing it really poorly. Okay. Okay. Pamphlet. This is from the Burke County Sheriff's office community policing division.
Oh,
AE: [01:03:47] good. I haven't heard from them in a long time.
CA: [01:03:52] So, um, the title of this pamphlet is "look at you drunk and stupid the life of the [01:04:00] party, a few facts about underage drinking." I'm so glad I did not show us with you at the beginning. Yeah, me too, because I really. And again, this all goes back to people who are well intentioned, but just show on or not.
AE: [01:04:14] Oh, not able to get it so wrong.
CA: [01:04:17] Why men get it so wrong? Excellent. Yes. That's the tie in of this. Okay. So here's a list of I'm reading directly from the pamphlet quote. "Here's a list of things that drunks do that you might find cool or not."
AE: [01:04:32] Okay. Let me see where I end on this. Is this like a Cosmo quiz?
This
CA: [01:04:36] is a, yes. This is exactly like the Cosmo quiz. Okay. Number one, having sex often, not remembering what you did with or without consent with anyone or at times everyone.
AE: [01:04:48] Oh, everyone loved that plug in.
CA: [01:04:51] Number two, throwing up on the floor. Furniture yourself, your friends or your date. Oh, I'm going to have to get that one.
A [01:05:00] check. Yeah. 21st birthday. Number three,
AE: [01:05:03] you threw up in front of
the door,
CA: [01:05:04] I did, I was almost home. Number three, hugging and sticking your head and clean or dirty toilets that may or may not belong to you
AE: [01:05:13] covering their whole basis. They're like, we didn't know what the state of the status of the toilet.
CA: [01:05:18] And number four, kissing, eating after drinking after and hanging all over. Just about everybody
AE: [01:05:26] eating after other people, which is a COVID no now
CA: [01:05:30] contracting AIDS, hepatitis and other deadly bugs. Oh, number six, driving drunk and killing your friends or maybe yourself. And if it makes it any easier, killing someone else's child.
Wow. Okay. Can we talk about all the ways that this is inappropriate? We still have four more to go.
AE: [01:05:51] Killing someone else's child. Got it.
CA: [01:05:53] Okay. Um, maybe if the person who had designed the Victoria theater would have received this pamphlet earlier,
AE: [01:05:59] Oh, [01:06:00] we could have prevented . That's why this is called preventable tragedies, preventable tragedies.
CA: [01:06:06] We're officially changing the name of our podcast. Uh, number seven, getting angry at and hurting the people you love and hello to that. You are such a sweet human being,
AE: [01:06:20] but some people do. Some people are fucking assholes
some
CA: [01:06:22] people are horrible. Number eight, sitting in jail and making new friends. At least they're making new friends.
Why you gotta be judgemental, uh, number nine, failing school and kissing your chance of a college education goodbye. Because buh-bye
AE: [01:06:38] thing that they can perceive as success. And
CA: [01:06:41] remember, this is all only because of drinking. Sure. Yeah. Just reframing that for you. And number 10, getting something that will last forever on a criminal record now to wrap all of this up and again, I'm reading directly from this pamphlet.
AE: [01:06:57] These are your original. [01:07:00] Please send all of your emails to Carey Ann directly.
CA: [01:07:03] I will not be giving out my personal email. You can send them to podwithoutanaud@gmail.com where Allie will be reading them.
Um, okay. So last page alcohol is a drug, all caps. Oh, drinking leads to alcoholism and alcoholism is a nice word for addiction.
AE: [01:07:23] All caps, you wouldn't steal a car.
CA: [01:07:27] Your body is not designed for alcohol intake. Alcohol is a poison to you. Drink enough of it and you can vomit have seizures pass out or die.
Alcohol will damage your liver causing cirrhosis, which keeps it from being able to remove toxins or poisons from your body. Alcohol makes you gain weight, which explains so much.
alcoholics lose weight because they quit eating.
AE: [01:07:53] Those are conflicting.
CA: [01:07:54] They're a little conflicting. You can't hide the smell of alcoholic beverages. You are not fooling [01:08:00] anyone, all caps, all caps. So I will be sharing this with you. I will also be putting this on Instagram because this is way too good to not anyone informed.
I think it's from the 1980s. If I remember where I got it, um, I got it when I was working at a school that was in Burke County. I'm not going to say which school, um, but the person who gave it to me thought it was hilarious. And, um, Has been working at that school for a very long time since the eighties.
So at some point they were handing this out to high schoolers. Got it. So, wow. Prevention gone wrong, but thank you for letting me share this pamphlet with you. Absolutely.
AE: [01:08:43] I mean, I feel, I mean, um, as I drink the champagne, I feel, uh, converted and changed.
CA: [01:08:49] Yep. We're continuing to have champagne with every episode, which makes me so happy.
AE: [01:08:54] I mean, I mean,
CA: [01:08:56] me too, I don't want to sound too excited about that.
AE: [01:09:00] [01:09:00] Let me give an appropriate amount of excitement about that, but like my, my voice doesn't register excitement. Like it does.
CA: [01:09:06] One more thing to throw out. There is one of the things I really miss most about pre COVID life is a dollar mimosas on Sunday mornings, following yoga at a specific bar, restaurant and bar in arcade in Greensboro that also had dill pickle pizza at the food truck right outside.
I'm allergic to oranges and having the opportunity to have a pineapple juice instead of orange juice. In my mimosa, they really met every single need that I have and all my, uh, chakra needs. That's right.
AE: [01:09:42] I think that having a lifestyle that supports all of your safety. And mental health needs is ideal.
Of course, it takes everybody a certain time to get to all those places and we'll link some supportive. [01:10:00] Um, that's a great idea, resources to assist anybody who's experiencing homelessness, especially in our local communities. We have a fantastic, uh, interactive resource center.
CA: [01:10:10] We also, we have a mutual aid of Greensboro, which, um, you know, just goes to support really anyone who needs it.
And they do a great job of getting money to the people who need it most. So there's, we'll also link that eight city
AE: [01:10:24] legal service, legal services, a law firm that supports people who need assistance, affording their legal care. We are local, but we also care about things happening all across our country and all across the world.
So. Um, definitely reach out to us with your resources and we'd be happy to, um, you know, pass those on to other people. Absolutely website, I think that's it. Thanks Carey Ann .
Thank you,
CA: [01:10:52] Alison.
AE: [01:10:54] All right. If you support us blink
CA: [01:10:56] twice, and if you're out there, keep listening.
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