Episode 1: Wandering Womb and Boston Tea Party - Transcript
CA: Hi Teamsters! I’m Carey Ann
AE: And, I’m Allison. And this is Podcast Without an Audience
CA: Where two friends pick two topics and find intersectionality.
AE: Or not. We don’t really know yet.
CA: Welcome to our first episode. How do you feel?
AE: I’m Excited.
CA: I’m excited too, and nervous. I’ve got lie a whole bunch going on, like butterflies…
AE: In the tum-tum
CA: Yeah, But I feel really good and super optimistic. I have so many ideas and I feel like I’ve been writing things down in my little notebook for days now.
AE: so the origin of the podcast, the name is pretty fitting because we, at this point have no expectations.
CA: And, no audience. Like there’s no one out there yet.
AE: Um, someday very soon there will be. Fingers crossed. Please send out good vibes. But yeah, the name originated from a discussion group that we created pre-COVID. We were really craving discussion, conversation, and connection.
CA: Yeah, and something other than a book club.
AE: I don’t want to read a fucking book. I know that you do. Like, you’re an avid reader. I’m not. I want the abridged version of SparkNotes of everything. I just want to show up and talk about things I, you know…
CA: Are interested in and care about?
AE: Exactly. So, I think this will give us a good opportunity to research new topics.
CA: Right, I’m going to mostly be talking about psychology but I also include social work and sociology. I mean, who knows? I would love to branch off and talk about all sorts of things as they relate to psychology. And then you?
AE: I’m going to be talking about history and history-adjacent topics. So, we’ll see. I mean, I feel like we have the right to go outside the box at any time. I’m reserving that right.
CA: Right granted.
AE: Thanks, but that is kind of the idea.
CA: Well, before we get started, let’s pour a glass of socially-distanced champagne, my friend. A little ASMR for those of you at home.
AE: So, I don’t know if you know about this or have heard of him but there’s like this kid basically, and I don’t know what to call him. He’s a young boy, like under 10. A small human. E listens to rap music and I know it sounds ridiculous but he writes reviews on it, I guess. And literally, in one of them, he is pouring himself a glass of like Trader Joe’s cucumber water or something. It’s not really what you think of when you are listening to rap but he literally references ASMR and he’s under 10. I was like Oh my God. That’s the new Gen Z. That’s what they’re growing up with.
CA: Speaking of which, at the beginning of the pandemic, I downloaded TikTok, mostly as a way to pass the time. Then I went down the rabbit hole of ASMR on TikTok and now I’m obsessed.
AE: Yeah, I’m big on the youtube which is the “old version”
CA: You and my brother are both on the YouTube thing.
AE: I feel overwhelmed by TikTok.
CA: Well, Rosie O’Donnell and Wayne Brady now have TikToks which means that you need to get one, too.
AE: I haven’t thought about Rosie O’Donnell in a minute. What does she do? Just reenactments of Harriet the Spy?
CA: She’s mostly just duetting people and telling them good job. It’s funny but also very comforting. I love her sense of style and humor. It’s so comforting to watch. Like, Oh Hey Golly! Though, she hasn’t referenced Harriet the Spy yet, which is frustrating. Does Harriet the Spy count as a cult film?
AE: No. I mean, there’s probably a cult following, but I see where you’re going with this.
CA: So, we have been talking about things that we want this podcast to do and become. So, I was super excited the other day and called Allie to say “Hey, um, you like cults…”
AE: Right, *I* like cults
CA: Well, and I’ve almost joined a cult.
AE: THat makes one of us.
CA: But we both love cult-adjacent topics.
AE: That’s my thing. We’re calling #cultadjacent. So the idea is that we’re going to be doing an additional episode a month, discussing cults and cult-adjacent things like cult movies.
CA: Right, anything that might have a cult following. Cults and cults in cinematic form.
AE: So we’re doing cults… period. Cults.
CA: So, before we go any further…
AE: Oh God, you just got so serious.
CA: This is a serious topic. Before we leave tonight, we need to watch Fried Green Tomatoes. We may be the only people in that cult.
AE: That’s like our friendship movie.
CA: It is. We watch this movie every time we’re together.
AE: Well, it started when you were in grad school and you would come back and we would use it as background noise while we were catching up. We would be talking and stuff for hours and hours while it played.
CA: I mean, we know every line of this movie. At least 50% of my texts to you are some reference to Fried Green Tomatoes. But, our dear Cicely Tyson passed away and it sucks. I know we’re not releasing this episode for a while. It’s our first episode and we want to have a few banked up before we start publishing but even then we will be missing Cicely Tyson.
AE: She was Sipsy. Fried Green Tomatoes definitely has some problematic representations of people of color and navigating race but she played an older black woman who basically raised the main character and was around her for the entire story.
CA: Let’s not give too much away because I do eventually want to cover this movie.
AE: I will say that she was supposed to be a range of different ages in the movie…
CA: … and she looks identical from start to finish.
AE: But, she is fan-fucking-tastic and that movie is so near and dear to our hearts and we love it so much. So, just piggybacking off the cult topic and our podcast in general, I think we’re’ really excited to be here with you all. We’re two best friends and we’ve known each other for a long time. Maybe we should go ahead and get this out of the way… um, we’re going to be talking about a lot of different topics and, you know, I want to take this opportunity to preface with who we are. The things we’re going to be discussing are often difficult and we’re going to be doing it from the perspective of two white women.
CA: That is in fact what my 23 and Me has confirmed. We are privileged in so many ways. We both have college degrees and many other forms of privilege. We’re going to give it our best as we learn and grow.
AE: Absolutely. So, 1000% just putting this out there. Anything we say is not the “end-all-be-all.” We’re open to growing and all that jazz. So, CA what is our psychology topic for this week?
CA: I’m so glad you asked Allison. I thought to start us off on the right foot, we should go back to ancient Greece. So much of medicine, philosophy, rhetoric, etc. came out of Greece.
AE: are we going to be talking about the relationships between older men and younger men?
CA: Probably not. Not at this time. We’re going to save that for later. Before we really get into it, I just want to say that everything I read in preparation for this episode all referenced “women” But, we know that gender is a social construct and we’re really talking about people with uteruses who are frequently assigned female at birth. Sure, some people are born with uteruses and some people are born with penises and some have both and some have neither and all of those things are fine and have no impact on gender identity or performance. So, just putting that out there.
AE: That’s a good place to start so that people understand on these things.
CA: so, for our first episode I’m going to be talking about the wandering womb.
AE: I’m so excited! Where could it go? All over the body?
CA: Yeah. we’re going to dig into it but first, we need to define the womb and then get back to Greece. We don’t really use the word “womb” anymore. I think people are probably more familiar with the word uterus. The uterus is an upside-down pear-shaped organ. Like a light bulb typically located in the lower region of a person’s body. Um, it’s where babies are housed.
AE: Is it bigger than a breadbox.
CA: No, it is smaller than a breadbox but similar to the buns baking in the oven, a zygote would be backing in the uterus. Okay, back to Greece. We’re going to talk about Hippocrates. He studied the uterus or womb.
AE: Was he obsessed?
CA: He was a little obsessed. It’s a beautiful thing that is capable of growing a human.
AE: Fucking magic. That’s magic.
CA: Women and/or people with uteruses are magical.
AE: Amen
CA: SO, Hippocrates is considered to be the “Father of Medicine” Actually, you may have heard of the “Hippocratic Oath.” It is basically what doctors and nurses say as they enter their professions it is the “do no harm” … basically, do the best you can and at the very least, don’t hurt anybody if you can help it. Now, we’re jumping around a smidge, but the Greek word for the uterus and the word that Hippocrates would have used was “hystera” H-Y-S-T-E-R-A. You’re giving me a look.
AE: It sounds like hysteria, which assuming what you’re about to say, is the shittiest thing I’ve ever heard.
CA: Yeah, exactly. So, Hippocrates was like here’s the womb (hystera). Women or people with uteruses can be hysterical, so it must be because of this pear-shaped organ in their bodies. He became obsessed which reminds me of our other good friend/enemy: Freud. Sigmund Freud.
AE: He’s kind of like the counterbalance. He was obsessed with the uterus instead of being obsessed with the peen.
CA. Exactly. I even have in my notes “if Hippocrates and Freud had lived at the same time, they probably would have started a podcast.” because they were very much aligned in their understanding of what caused women to become “hysterical”
AE: That’s so interesting because there was nothing about men. It wasn’t about what made men assholes it was about what affected women, either the uterus or penis.
CA: Which is still our experience in society. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard women say that men have asked them “Are you on your period? Is it your time of the month?” No! I’m just human and I don’t have to suppress any emotions due to toxic masculinity.
CA: Freud believed that hysteria was a result of sexual abuse at an early age and really only applied to women; however, he later diagnosed himself with hysteria and blamed it on his work but I’m going to let you draw whatever conclusions you will. Ultimately, the ancient Greeks and Hippocrates decided that women have this weirdly shaped organ that men don’t have and that must be why women do things that men don’t do. Like it could have nothing to do with social conditioning.
AE: So, women are experiencing “symptoms” or things that men don’t necessarily understand. One symptom might be women having opinions and
CA: We need to blame it on something because women need to control less….
AE: So, we diagnose her, or them, with some type of condition, right? To suppress them.
CA: Specifically for having a wandering womb. Now, I’m sure you’re still wondering where the womb can wander, that was your first question. We’re going to circle back because you deserve an answer.
AE: Right, I’m confused. Listen, you’ve got to stay where you are because you’re kind of tethered in place, right? It seems like… operationally speaking… like the game, you’ve gotta know what you’re going up against.
CA: Right, so what they believed was that the uterus wasn’t attached to anything.
AE: Well, that’s fucking wrong.
CA: We know that now; but, they believed that the womb would just wander around your body and chill in different places. So, if it wandered up to your throat, you might misspeak frequently, have a sore throat, or not be able to speak at all.
AE: Maybe say things that might be inappropriate?
CA: Yeah, exactly. If it wandered to your diaphragm, you might burp a lot. (Which is what you’re currently experiencing, perhaps?) And, if it wandered up to your head, you would become “hysterical.”
AE: It was the brain. It was up to your brain…
CA: Your womb wandered up to your head and …
AE: It’s such an interesting image. I’m seeing you across the room and imagining a pear-shaped uterus on your forehead. Kind of like a triangle. I’m thinking of Link, from Zelda with the triangle.
CA: Yeah, that. That works for me. I was thinking care bears or trolls but instead of a thing on their belly, they have it on their head.
CA: SO, Terri Kapsalis who works at the Art Institute of Chicago wrote an article called: “Hysteria, Witches and the Wandering Uterus: or why I teach the Yellow Wallpaper”
AE: Oh My God. That sounds fantastic! I want to take it.
CA: Oh, me too. Do you remember the Yellow Wall Paper?
AE: God. No, I think I learned that in like middle or early high school. I remember a substitute teacher being like, “here you go.” And being like, thanks, I don’t know what to do with this.
CA: Exactly, I feel like that’s what most people may associate with the Yellow Wallpaper. I helped a friend who was in a community college class and was supposed to read The Yellow Wallpaper and she didn’t want to do it so she paid me like a hundred bucks to write this paper for her.
AE: You’re literally a professional.
CA: So, the woman in the story is experiencing mental health issues and believes that the wallpaper is moving or has essentially come alive.
AE: So, that’s problematic. She’s experiencing pain
CA: And, not receiving treatment.
AE: No, I remember her husband being just the worst.
CA: Yeah, but Terri says it in the context of what is now a four thousand-year history of the medical diagnosis of hysteria. It has become a wastebasket diagnosis that has been a “dumpsite for all that could be imagined wrong with a woman from around 1900BCE to the 1950s.” I really hope I got those dates right. Ultimately, I printed out this article for you to have on your bookshelf. I feel like it’s so weird and oddly specific that it would be something we would both enjoy.
AE: Absolutely! It’s fascinating. Thank you!
CA: Yeah, she goes on to talk about how the understanding of hysteria has shifted and changed over the years. There was a period of time when it was blamed on witches. SO, thinking about the Salem Witch Trials and hysteria.
AE: Yeah, I imagine it would be, you know, any time a woman showed any kind of behavior that was unsatisfactory at the time.
CA: Or, unexplainable for any other reason.
AE: It could just be a woman who is exhausted with her subservient fucking bullshit at the time. Which sounds really hard.
CA: It does. So, I guess that brings us to what causes a womb to wander. We now know the roots of a lot of mental health issues, or at least we think we do, as much as we can theorize about any of it.
AE: We know everything. Did we not say that at the beginning? We have all the answers.
CA: We’re basically encyclopedias. We know everything. At the time, it was theorized that the womb would wander around the body, according to old white men, hungry for semen.
AE: Woah, sorry, what? In all our years of friendship, I’ve never heard you say that word. Yikes. Okay, yeah, maybe don’t do it again.
CA: All future references to semen after this episode will be omitted.
AE: You literally just said it again. Yeah, I am uncomfortable
CA: And you might be for a little while longer.
AE: Okay. I’m scared, continue.
CA: So, it would wander around the body looking for, or hungry for, semen. The reason it would go on these hunts is because women were reading novels, or working, masturbating, had homosexual tendencies, or were exhibiting seductive behaviors. So, anytime the uterus was just like, oh, there’s something out there that I’m missing, let me wander around looking for it.
AE: So, we’re at risk all the time, essentially.
CA: You and I are highest on the list.
AE: If we were playing wandering womb bingo, then “Yahtzee”!
CA: Precisely. Okay, this is the best and worst-case scenario because the treatments for us aren’t much better. SO, once the womb has started to wander, you’ve got to figure out how to get it back to the right place. So, some common options: a genital massage by an approved provider. Masturbation will cause it to wander, but a stranger can cure it. And, it may not have always been a man, just assuming people were conservative or pious, you know, maybe they would call a midwife. Homosexual tendencies were frowned upon; however, a woman could be approved as a provider to provide genital massage to a woman who had a wandering womb. Another common treatment was marriage. And then, intercourse, because clearly you give the womb what it wants and it goes back to where it’s supposed to be with the semen. Having semen in the uterus anchors it down because suddenly there’ll be a baby growing in there or a zygote, fetus, etc.
AE: So, they’re saying that settling down in a hetero relationship with a husband and baby is the best case scenario. So, essentially it is implying that hysteria comes from being single and unwed.
CA: Or, women not being satisfied with their marriage.
AE: You know reading the books makes sense because here you have 50 Shades of Gray. They’re problematic. I equate 50 Shades of Gray to Twilight because the lead female roles don’t really develop. I’m like, Bella, I want so much for you and then you’re being abused by this person you love. Like, why is he in your room when you’re 17? Why is he watching you sleep? And then, he’s also tying you up. You should probably see what else is out there.
CA: Right, however, if you’re going to engage in BDSM, have a contract, talk about safe words. Maybe they did have a contract but they didn’t honor it. Something doesn’t track here. …
CA: Another really common treatment was an ovariectomy. So, this is different I guess than a mastectomy because this is just removing the ovaries? Where a hysterectomy is removing everything, this specifically referenced an ovariectomy.
AE: A hysterectomy is just removing the uterus and then a uterus is taken out just the uh, the ovaries?
CA: Sure. We know what we’re talking about.
AE: It is unclear at this time.
CA: SO, those are possible treatment options. Okay, now the rise of the diagnosis, which we’ve sort of touched on already, was about the time women were gaining access to education and to spaces where, historically, men had been
AE: I haven’t fact-checked this at all but is this like when germs were “becoming a thing” that people understood? There was just a lot of new information coming at you.
CA: Sure, without knowing exactly when germs hit the scene, we’ll have to do some research on that, but I assume you’re probably right. I mean, medical advances kind of like technology today, happened in a boom. So, that would be a great assumption. Let’s roll with it. There’s now mass hysteria, not just female hysteria but about all sorts of things. So, the period: BCE until the 1950s. I first heard about the wandering womb in a Shakespeare class. The teacher made the argument that Ophelia, of Hamlet, was suffering from the “wandering womb” which would have still been a common diagnosis during that time. Whether you call it a wandering womb or struggling with an abusive partner, it all comes together under one umbrella. The story ends with her killing herself. The diagnosis really rose during the Victorian Era which is when Queen Victoria was reigning. Women’s wombs were being blamed for everything. Fortunately, the diagnosis of “hysteria” has now gone out of fashion. We now have the DSM-V which is the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual, 5th ed. And helps us diagnose actual mental health issues and not just blame it on the uterus.
AE: That’s so interesting. I hate it but that’s part of our history.
CA: I do too. I love how off-base men were. They were just wrong. The ancient Greeks got a lot right, they figured out some cool math stuff, rhetoric, etc. You know, the “do no harm” was good stuff but they were so off-point on a “wandering womb” that it’s now laughable. And, it still influences the way we think about mental health, especially in women. I don’t think people realize how deep or how far back it goes. Like, yeah, hysteria is directly linked to a body part that some people have.
AE: Yes, it is stupor problematic and also some has changed possibly, but maybe not as much as we would have liked. I think it has a lot to do with the way you were exposed to things and nature versus nurture, which I’m sure we will go into at a later episode. You did a fantastic job on your very first day. Yes, girl. Are you ready for mine?
CA: Hang on. Let me prepare mentally. Okay, my uterus is where it should be.
AE: SO, I’m going to be covering a historical topic for this week.
CA: In our psychology and history podcast?
AE: That is correct, my friend. SO, I am going to be covering a large variety of history over the course of our podcast.
CA: Oh, I thought you meant in this one episode, I am going to be impressed.
AE: No, haha, over the course. But, we might be talking about people, events, concepts, all of that is to be determined. TBD. But today, I’m going to be talking about the Boston Tea Party.
CA: Okay. I have a challenge for you: Do the entire podcast in your best Boston accent.
AE: *tries* No. I can’t. Okay, I’m going to bring us back in time to when tea was really hitting its stride. SO, we know that the practice of drinking tea goes back to the third millennium BC, in China. It isn’t something that the Europeans invented. Drinking tea in England became popular in the 1660s when King Charles the second and his beautiful wife kind of made it poppin. There were like the people to watch at the time. So, tea had transitioned from something that was really upper-class to something that was really accessible to all people and it became ingrained in the culture.
CA: That’s probably a good thing because one of the things I know about tea is that it is made with hot water.
AE: Right, hot leaf water rather than hot bean water, which is coffee, and what you are useless without.
CA: Right, which I also love. So, tea went on the rise and I imagine people in rural communities were probably boiling water for tea and realizing that maybe it purified it more.
AE: That water was probably disgusting. Yeah
CA: 1000%. On my second trip to Germany, we went to a small town that a long time ago was known for having clean water. Oh, and the 16th century, 1600’s(?), in Germany people who were dying would take pilgrimages to this town. They called cities with these water sources “Bad” which means “bath”?
AE: Like a babbling brook?
CA: No, it was a little hand pump and well in the middle of town. So, people would come here and drink this water and thought it had magical properties but really, it was just cleaner.
AE: They were dehydrated and could really use…
CA: … and had the dysentery.
AE: Oh, my God. Well, so Britain was in debt at the time because of the French and Indian war and I’m not going to go into detail because it might be something that I want to do cover at a later time, but the American colonists were kind of creating an income for themselves by selling exotic goods back to England because of the differences in agriculture. They started growing tobacco and shipping it off to England and the middle-class grew. The middle class back home in England grew from selling goods that the American “colonists” were selling back and forth.
So, we’re going to fast forward to 1765. In order to gain back some of the lost revenue that England had experienced, Britain implemented the Stamp Act which taxed every single piece of printed paper.
CA: Okay, this is coming back to me. It’s like taxation without representation but that comes a little later?
AE: Yes, but this Stamp Act is taxing playing cards, newspapers, anything in paper form. And, if you think about it at the time, besides theater and storytelling, all of their entertainment was printed on paper so that was a huge blow to them.
CA: Like the Reynolds Pamphlet… Oh, we’re not quite at Alexander Hamilton’s time, yet?
AE: No, but almost. He, Peggy, and Eliza are up in New York but they’re alive at this time. So, we’re not quite there yet. Almost, so in 1767, two years later, the Townshend Acts were implemented which taxed essentials like paint, glass, lead, and tea. SO, this is going on top of the stamp act, and as more things are becoming taxed people are getting angry. Britain thinks that these takes are fair because they consider the majority of their debt to be incurred but essentially fighting on behalf of the colonists and the colonists are like, “We really don’t want it. We just want to be left alone”
CA: And England is like “you’ll be back”
AE: Right, exactly. So, this is the point where no taxation without representation, and in theory, all along, you’re absolutely right. This is where that comes from because they weren’t represented in parliament. So, they’re paying taxes and they’re essentially a colony of Britain and they don’t have a seat at the table.
CA: You know what’s interesting to me is that when I was living in DC I saw so many DC license plates that say “taxation without representation” except that I had always been taught that it was “no taxation without representation.” The “no” seems pretty important. I feel like there’s something that may have happened at some point for them to leave it off.
AE: No, the “no” is critically important. They’re like, don’t tax me unless I can vote and have a say-so in the government that rules me.
CA: But, how ironic that DS is now like, oh, but maybe taxation without representation?
AE: Anyway, so this is kind of the point where they began smuggling tea, not any of the taxable tea.
CA: Captain Jack Sparrow was in the sea at this point (East India Trading Company and smuggling).
AE: Yes, he shows up pirating DVD’s. But, 90% of the tea at this point was smuggled in. Okay, so tax enforcement began and all I can think of is um, have you ever seen Popeye the Sailor Man? The feature-length film? This was like from the ’60s or ’70s and Robin Williams was in it. It was maybe his first feature film. It’s the weirdest thing you’ve ever seen. It’s my dad’s favorite movie. It’s super obscure. I am sure we will cover it in a cult film. Anyway, there’s this guy who shows up and he’s like the taxation guy and he’s like, “oh, it’s 10 cents for boat tax, and tax, or whatever. And everyone was like…
CA: Excellent Robin Williams impression
AE: Well, that’s the taxation guy, not Robin. Robin was Popeye. Anyway, so the tax enforcement that’s going on now… There are British soldiers or British guards that are still present in the colonies because of the French and Indian war that happened. And there’s a huge discrepancy about how people are feeling about them being there because the colonists are like, okay, the war’s over. You can go back home now. And, they’re like probably not … we’re collecting taxes. It came to a head and they actually open fire on a mob in Boston, which we now know as the Boston Massacre.
And this began with a “group of unruly colonists and they were throwing ice and snow” because it’s fucking cold in Boston, and like oyster shells, all these things that the British soldiers and guards were not having. So what did they do? They called their buddies. That’s when the soldiers fired into the crowd.
CA: That’s problematic
AE: And still very relevant, unfortunately.
CA: Absolutely, Firing into a crowd as a tactic to controlling people is something that we still see frequently. It’s so damaging. People are always going to be caught in the crossfire. It does nothing to build trust or communication and it immediately escalates things.
AE: No, absolutely. And, they killed five people. So, obviously, everyone’s upset. Everybody’s pissed. So, eventually, because of this event, they pulled back taxes on everything except tea. And why? Because everyone was drinking tea.
So, the British East Indian company was selling to the British but couldn’t sell to America because everything was coming from Britain so they could profit. Everything was funneling through Britain to the Americas. But, once everyone started smuggling ea into America, they saw a hit in their business. SO, they’re basically begging the British government at this point, please, like sell directly to the colonies and they eventually gave in.
In 1773 the Tea Act came to be, and this allowed the British East Indian Company to sell directly to the colonies, duty-free. So, this decreases the price of tea significantly from when it was being funneled from Britain which makes sense. At the same time, the colonists didn’t think that it should be taxed at all. So, they did not support this new agreement and considered it a monopoly, just like we have today.
New groups started popping up, one of which was the Sons of Liberty, which was lead by Samuel Adams.
CA: That sounds similar to Daughters of the American Revolution. Sons, Daughters, Revolution, Liberty.
AE: Literally identical.
This was a group of colonial merchants and tradesmen, founded to protest the Stamp Act, originally. Now, the fight was in full swing. Okay, so ships were arriving in the colonies, specifically in New York and Philadelphia, and they turned the ships of tea away because they were like, no, we don’t accept this. We’re not paying tax on this when we can get it smuggled in by our friend.
In Charleston, SC, they did allow the ships to come in, but they wouldn’t let anyone come aboard, like on land. They kept everyone on the ships. Then, all the crops and things on the ship rotted in port.
CA: They were like “you want a revolution, we want a revelation”
Allie: yes, exactly. In December 1773, Sagittarius season, the Sons of Liberty held a rally in Griffin’s Wharf which is in Boston, Massachusetts, and they were waiting upon the arrival of Dartmouth which was a great British Indian Co. ship carrying tea.
CA: Also, a university. Isn’t that one of the ivy leagues?
AE: I don’t know. It is featured in the film, Super Bad. I do know they discuss it. We know so much. I am a professional. Um, Dartmouth was joined by two sister ships. Do you want to guess the names of the two sisters?
CA: Columbia and Yale?
AE: Okay. That’s really good, but no. There are two things that you might also appreciate: Beaver and Eleanor.
CA: Two of my favorite things.
AE: #EleanorRosevelt and beavers. 5,000 Bostonians gathered and, like, how the hell do you organize a meet-up of 5,000 people in the 1770s.
CA: Lots of carrier pigeons.
AW: They all came together and voted not to pay for the taxes or allow the tea to be unloaded, stored, or sold. So, basically, you don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here is what they were saying. Their governor at the time, Thomas Hutchinson, refused to allow the ships to return to Britain with the corps. O, there’s a contradictory element to the people and government. Anyway, there are obviously conflicting ideologies here. SO, this is the problematic shit. 50 men, out of the 5,000, on that night dressed up as Native Americans.
CA: Okay. Let’s stop. Stop, rewind, reconsider that decision.
AE: We cannot because it is happening, or has happened, already. So their cry was “Boston Harbor, a teapot tonight.” They were like, we’re going to turn this shit into a teapot.
CA: While being dressed as indigenous people.
AE: Correct, so essentially, they board these ships and they throw 342 tea chests over the three ships into the harbor. It took three hours and 45 tons of tea was tossed overboard which costs over a million dollars today.
CA: I mean, way to do some damage, but why the hell do you have to do it dressed like indigenous people?
It’s like Halloween costumes today. You have so many options to choose from. Don’t choose the problematic one. It’s especially terrible knowing what’s going on, and what’s coming, for indigenous people in the Americas.
AE: Well, I’m sure we’ll talk about those in the intersectionality portion, but the fact that they chose to do this was they didn’t want to be identified. They wanted another group of people to be blamed for this crime or protest.
CA: It kind of reminds me how fascists show up at the BLM protests and escalated things. Just to blame it on Antifa and BLM protesters. So, I think it’s kind of the same in the sense that people are trying to pass the blame on someone else. Now, I am not, not in support of the Boston Tea Party, I just don’t like how they did it.
AE: What’s interesting is they swept the docks completely clean afterward. They completely cleaned up after themselves and they left. This is interesting because they were fucking dickheads for dressing up as they were, and yet they cleaned up after themselves. SO, it was a very organized protest with problematic undertones.
CA: And overtones.
AE: King George the third, WHich is the king at the time directly responded to this with the Coercive Acts of 1774 which closed the Boston Harbor until the tea lost that night was paid for, which never fucking happened.
CA: No, we peaced out of there soon after this, they just don’t know it yet. Hamilton is coming.
AE: He is coming. This also ended the Massachusetts constitution and ended free election for town officials which I think is interesting because he was basically like, democracy is over for you. You report to me now. He moved judicial authority to Britain and British judges. SO, again, kind of playing into that last point.
And, he extended freedom of worship, which is like the random one. He accepted and he was like, let me just throw out this, here’s a bone. He extended freedom of worship to French-Canadian Catholics under British rule, which angered the mostly Protestant colonists.
CA: This is so funny. It is kind of like when a kid gets grounded. As a teenager, you get your driver’s license and you can go out, then you break curfew or do something dumb and your parents are like, oh, well, I’m taking back the keys. And, just to kick you one more time, I’m going to give the little sibling a treat.
AW: Yeah, it’s interesting because they got, really, upset about the fact that another group of people got equality or privileges. We will talk about that later too, but a point I want to make now is that it’s interesting because we know that history is written from the winner’s perspective and it’s important to understand, and we hear this quote all the time.
Equality is not a pie. If you have a piece, it doesn’t mean that there’s less for me.
CA: Right, infinite pies. Have a whole damn pie. THat’s so true, especially when you’re looking at issues like, you know, freedom of religion which is the reason that we were taught people wanted to leave Europe. The Quakers and shakers…
AE: and candlestick makers
CA: just wanted to come to the US because they can celebrate whatever religion they chose, doesn’t mean you can’t accept that currently. I mean, that’s a mess.
AE: Most colonists felt that this act went way overboard. So, delegates from the 13 colonies, except for Georgia.
CA: Georgia was a little far away.
AE: They were asleep.
CA: They didn’t check their voicemails
AE: In their bed. They were like “somebody from Philadelphia wants to talk to you/
CA: “Nah man, just let that go to voicemail.”
AE: “let that go to voicemail, honey.” But everybody, except for Georiga, met in Philadelphia which is also like, just being the odd one out.
CA: THey’re like well, we gotta wait on Georgia. They’re going to be an extra five days.
AE: And they’re like, well, we should go hang out with some sex workers while we’re waiting.
CA: Check out that red-light district.
AE: We saw some good reviews on Yelp. So, the group locks themselves away for a month. So, plenty of time for Georgia, but oh well. SO, they came out and they had written something called the Declaration and Resolves which censored Britain for passing the cohesive acts. And they were like, hey, no, no, no, no. They established an official boycott on British goods. They declared that the colonists had the right to govern independently, and they also rallied the colonists to form and train a colonial militia.
CA: Um, I feel like this was what inspired the founding fathers to include the right to bear arms and make it number two in the constitution.
AE: Yeah, that is exactly the reason my friend.
CA: Yeah, you have arms. I have arms. Bears have arms.
AE: Now, I am picturing a bear with arms. Well, with human arms. Bears do have arms.
CA: Except that so much has changed. Like, thinking about firing into a crowd today versus then.
AE: I didn’t say before but they had musket balls and like, it was so hard to reload your weapon.
CA: Yeah, you had to put the gun powder in every time.
AE: I’m surprised they even hit five people they were so unreliable and inaccurate. My last sentence before we get into intersectionality is that Britain was like “Nah.” and within a few months, the shot heard round the world rang out from Concord Mass. Which sparked the start of the Revolutionary War.
CA: Wow. Yes. Bravo! Thank you so much!
AE: So, C.A., how do these two topics intersect.
CA: SO, you said something about history being told from the winner’s perspective and I think that’s kind of the key to our intersectionality this week. Yeah, because the story of women has been told from the perspective of men. This particular story of the Boston Tea Party was told from the perspective of white men.
AE: So, who tells our stories.
CA: Who lives, who dies, who tells our story… This is now a Hamilton podcast.
AE: Exactly.
CA: With your Hamilton cup.
AE: Yes, I do have it right here.
CA: Rise up. … I think that the commonality is that the story of the wandering womb was not told from the perspective of women and also in your story, you had indigenous people who were being taken advantage of and murdered, removed from their land, and then set up to take the fall for another group of people.
AE: With potential criminal repercussions. Absolutely. That’s super shitty. I wish, you know, the purpose f the Boston Tea Party was to be a protest. And, to be like “fuck you” to their current situation. I am ashamed that it went down the way it did. Because we’re not taught that portion of the Boston Tea Party in school.
CA: Yeah, because white men write our history books. Ultimately, it is a coming of age story and the act of rebellion that leads to our “freedom” from England. Whether or not we should have been here to benign with is a different story.
AE: Which, we know is a “no”.
CA: I’m sure we’re going to talk about these topics again.
AE: Absolutely, understanding the full history that proceeded events. And, what were people’s thoughts and rationale at the time? I think that shows a lot about why things ended up the way they did. That’s kind of like the jumping-off point for why we decided we wanted to do this was to understand the world we are in and how everything came to be in this moment.
CA: Absolutely. And, who is telling the stories? How are they being told? Who is left out of them? Who is included and why? Who does it benefit? These are all questions I think you and I are interested in. Also, even on the weeks like this, that we may not have had everything in common between our two stories.
AE: I don’t think we mentioned in the beginning but we don’t know what each other’s covering each week.
CA: Yeah, so these have not been chosen in tandem. We, each in our own little section of Greensboro, picked a topic that we wanted to research and educate the other one on for the week. SO, I think it is okay that we don’t always intersect in obvious ways so long as we acknowledge like these are still things that do have an impact on each other or the way we understand them now.
AE: Yes, 1000% and I think that’s what it’s all about. This is the hokey pokey.
CA: You beat me to it, I was about to say the exact same thing.
AE: Haha, alright my friend.
CA: I guess we’re done for the night.
AE: Thanks@ So, wrapping up that first episode. I’m excited. Cheers to that, my friend. Thank you guys so much for listening. If you support us, blink twice.
CA: And, if you’re out there, keep listening.
AE: Thank you for listening to Podcast without an Audience. Find us on social media at Podwithoutanaud on Instagram or Facebook. Or find us on the web ad podcastwithoutanaudience.com. Shoot us an email at podwithoutanaud@gmail.com. Our cover art is created by an actual angel, Ashley Acevedo. Our music is by Zach Smith and ted Oliver. Editing by Jacob Beeson.
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